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What makes one frum or not frum?
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jewishmom6




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:02 pm
What do you consider a man "frum/religios" and when do you consider a man secular?

If one keeps Taharas Hamishpacha, Kashrus & Shabbos but nothin else would you consider him "frum"?
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urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:04 pm
Is your question halachic or cultural? You can't get the answer in a vacuum.
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cuffs




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:05 pm
I consider someone who is shomer shabbos to be frum
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jewishmom6




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:05 pm
Kind of both.
If a guy keeps all the above but doesn't put on tefillin, make a succah..would he be considered frum?
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jkl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:11 pm
jewishmom6 wrote:
What do you consider a man "frum/religios" and when do you consider a man secular?

If one keeps Taharas Hamishpacha, Kashrus & Shabbos but nothin else would you consider him "frum"?


Yes, I accept all Yidden who honor those three core mitzvahs as frum. I don't scrutinize, evaluate & judge anyone else. I only evaluate and judge my own level of frumkeit to see if its where I want it to be.

I let Hashem be the judge of all else.
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shmosmom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:17 pm
Whaaaaaaaat? Why would you put that as criteria?
If a guy wears a white shirt, he's frum. If not, he's not.
Why do you think they start with white shirts at their bar mitzvah? It's because that's when you're chiyuv mitzvos and that's the main mitzvah.

For a woman it's if she wears a black skirt that covers her knees when she stands, sits, and runs after her kids to wipe their noses then she's frum. If I see someone in a green skirt with the same length I figure she may be frum but definitely "out-of-town".
Very simple, don't even know why there has to be a thread about it.
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urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:18 pm
shmosmom I think OP is actually looking for a non sarcastic answer
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jewishmom6




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:20 pm
shmosmom wrote:
Whaaaaaaaat? Why would you put that as criteria?
If a guy wears a white shirt, he's frum. If not, he's not.
Why do you think they start with white shirts at their bar mitzvah? It's because that's when you're chiyuv mitzvos and that's the main mitzvah.

For a woman it's if she wears a black skirt that covers her knees when she stands, sits, and runs after her kids to wipe their noses then she's frum. If I see someone in a green skirt with the same length I figure she may be frum but definitely "out-of-town".
Very simple, don't even know why there has to be a thread about it.


because I was having this argument/discussion with my dh and curious what other peoples takes are on it.

Dont take it further.

My dh was saying that if a guy doesnt do tefillin and basic halacha technically he would not be considered frum. I didnt agree with him.

this has nothing to do with yeshivish...
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STMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:23 pm
jkl wrote:
Yes, I accept all Yidden who honor those three core mitzvahs as frum


Define "honor".
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shyshira




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:23 pm
jewishmom6 wrote:
because I was having this argument/discussion with my dh and curious what other peoples takes are on it.

Dont take it further.

My dh was saying that if a guy doesnt do tefillin and basic halacha technically he would not be considered frum. I didnt agree with him.

this has nothing to do with yeshivish...


considered frum by whom?
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shmosmom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:24 pm
urban gypsy wrote:
shmosmom I think OP is actually looking for a non sarcastic answer


Hmmmm. In that case I'd go by if they identify as such. If they tell me they're frum I just believe them.
If they don't tell me whether or not, I don't think I'd bother debating their status. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. If I'm not sure if they're frum then I just use Mevushal wine when they're over or whatever.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:28 pm
A frum Jew should be Shomer Torah and Mitzvos. Those 3 mitzvos are biggies and have come to be synonymous with frum. There is no halachic definition of frum, only someone who is מחלל שבת in terms of being trusted for השגחה or counted on for a minyan.

A frum man should put on תפילין yet not putting on tefilin does not define one as frum or not.
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jkl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:30 pm
jewishmom6 wrote:
because I was having this argument/discussion with my dh and curious what other peoples takes are on it.

Dont take it further.

My dh was saying that if a guy doesnt do tefillin and basic halacha technically he would not be considered frum. I didnt agree with him.

this has nothing to do with yeshivish...


Are you asking what should be considered or what the general population actually does?
We are all so quick to label & judge others, so I agree with your husband that the majority would jump to the conclusion and quickly label him as not frum. But can anyone answer what Hashem actually considers him to be? I doubt it. But I do know that Hashem gave us instructions to love and accept and not judge any person. So as long as the core of yiddishkeit is kept, it isn't up to any of us to decide if that is or isn't sufficient to be considered frum.

So in my eyes, if any Yid recognizes and acknowledges Hashem and performs mitzvos, he is frum


Last edited by jkl on Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rachelmom1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:31 pm
That's easy. If you do whatever I do wrong, you're frum. If you do anything else wrong you're no longer frum.
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jewishmom6




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:31 pm
simba wrote:
A frum Jew should be Shomer Torah and Mitzvos. Those 3 mitzvos are biggies and have come to be synonymous with frum. There is no halachic definition of frum, only someone who is מחלל שבת in terms of being trusted for השגחה or counted on for a minyan.

A frum man should put on תפילין yet not putting on tefilin does not define one as frum or not.


If one does not keep shabbos, they cant be counted in for a minyan?

So where does these 3 mitzvos come from if not from halacha?
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urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:34 pm
jewishmom6 wrote:
If one does not keep shabbos, they cant be counted in for a minyan?


I know for a fact that is incorrect.
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jewishmom6




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:37 pm
jkl wrote:
Are you asking what should be considered or what the general population actually does?
We are all so quick to label & judge others, so I agree with your husband that the majority would jump to the conclusion and quickly label him as not frum. But can anyone answer what Hashem actually considers him to be? I doubt it. But I do know that Hashem gave us instructions to love and accept and not judge any person. So as long as the core of yiddishkeit is kept, it isn't up to any of us to decide if that is or isn't sufficient to be considered frum.

So in my eyes, if any Yid recognizes and acknowledges Hashem and performs mitzvos, he is frum


but what if he doesnt perform mitzvos. Is he still considered frum?
I would venture to say if he keeps the top 3 but does the mitzvos that he chooses then yes he is frum.

but most ppl that are not keeping one of the top three are most probably not keeping any mitzvos..therefore not frum?
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jewishmom6




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:38 pm
urban gypsy wrote:
I know for a fact that is incorrect.


I thought so, hence the questioning.
I am pretty sure that as long as one is a jew they can be counted.
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urban gypsy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:39 pm
jewishmom6 wrote:
I thought so, hence the questioning.
I am pretty sure that as long as one is a jew they can be counted.


If it was true most of the Chabad houses would never have a minyan.
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 17 2019, 2:39 pm
Urban gypsy, a jewish man who doesn't keep shabbos cannot be counted for a minyan.
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