What makes one frum or not frum?

Raisin

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 5:22 pm

You can't count in a minyan a Jew who converted to another religion. Can't recall the specifics of that, but I know a xtian priest, who was born Jewish, is not allowed to be part of a minyan.

Some shuls have rules about not giving aliyos to people who are not shomer shabbos, or married out. Depends on the shul.

Ruchel

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 5:39 pm

jewishmom6 wrote:

What do you consider a man "frum/religios" and when do you consider a man secular?

If one keeps Taharas Hamishpacha, Kashrus & Shabbos but nothin else would you consider him "frum"?

Yes, especialy as they probably do mitzvos - kindness? help?

I would even call frum someone who isn't there yet but frum minded and trying

naturalmom5

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 7:26 pm

shmosmom wrote:

Whaaaaaaaat? Why would you put that as criteria?
If a guy wears a white shirt, he's frum. If not, he's not.
Why do you think they start with white shirts at their bar mitzvah? It's because that's when you're chiyuv mitzvos and that's the main mitzvah.

For a woman it's if she wears a black skirt that covers her knees when she stands, sits, and runs after her kids to wipe their noses then she's frum. If I see someone in a green skirt with the same length I figure she may be frum but definitely "out-of-town".
Very simple, don't even know why there has to be a thread about it.

You didn't even mention if she was wearing tights or not

Shame on you Twisted Evil

Librarian

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 8:07 pm

I consider someone frum if they keep kosher, shabbos, taharas hamishpacha and the rules of the road. If they try to kill me or someone else on Rt 59 or in the Evergreen parking lot because human life is disposable if you have to get somewhere, then sorry, I don't consider them frum. And I bet G-d does not either.

thunderstorm

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 8:54 pm

Librarian wrote:

This made me laugh because I’m a pedestrian who feels this all the time. But it’s really not funny. A baby was killed a year or two ago right over there on that corner because someone had to get somewhere and cut someone off.

thunderstorm

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 8:56 pm

When I was growing up my BT parents raised us believing that Orthodox Jews were frum and the non Orthodox were “Frei”. We referred to my relatives as Frei (not to their face) as an adult I refer to them as non frum.

thunderstorm

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 9:41 pm

singleagain wrote:

What does Frei mean?

Literal translation from Yiddish to English : it means FREE as in freedom.

Amarante

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 9:45 pm

singleagain wrote:

What does Frei mean?

I thought literally free in translation. In the old country, the division was pretty clear cut - either you were Orthodox and observed as everyone else in your community did or you didn't believe and you were Frei.

There weren't these gradations of belief nor were people in the past as rigid as they now seem to be in terms of what it takes to be observant - at least in my observation of older people I know who believe themselves to be Orthodox.

singleagain

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 9:49 pm

Thank you for explaining. But then.. why would frum and frie be opposite?

Is religious not free? I mean.. In a certain sense I get it bc of all the restrictions we have... But I don't think that's true all over?

urban gypsy

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 11:17 pm

Cheiny wrote:

They also are not allowed to be buried in a Jewish cemetery according to a shiur I heard from a well respected Rov.

LMAO time to go dig up at least 30 people I know then including my father! Where are you getting this stuff from?

mommy9

Tue, Sep 17 2019, 11:47 pm

simba wrote:

A frum Jew should be Shomer Torah and Mitzvos. Those 3 mitzvos are biggies and have come to be synonymous with frum. There is no halachic definition of frum, only someone who is מחלל שבת in terms of being trusted for השגחה or counted on for a minyan.

A frum man should put on תפילין yet not putting on tefilin does not define one as frum or not.

simba

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:34 am

jewishmom6 wrote:

If one does not keep shabbos, they cant be counted in for a minyan?

So where does these 3 mitzvos come from if not from halacha?

I answered your first question in another response.

Regarding the bolded: there is no such term frum in halacha in first place so how these 3 mitzvos became the definition of a social/cultural term is a good question.

Terms to describe a level of observance used in halacha are: שומר שבת, ירא שמים etc..

essie14

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 2:33 am

Nobody observes all the mitzvot. Everyone struggles with something. I know more than a dozen "frum" men who keep Shabbat and kosher and struggle with minyan/tefilin during the week. They probably put on tefilin 10 times a year. Does that make them not frum?
I know women who buy the highest kashrut and cover all their hair and wear stockings 365 days a year and can yenta with the best of them.
Yes, in general the "big 3" are the barometers of being frum but there's also a lot of gray area.

Debbie

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 4:11 am

urban gypsy wrote:

LMAO time to go dig up at least 30 people I know then including my father! Where are you getting this stuff from?

Urban gypsy,I could add quite a few people I know to that,including close family members!

southernbubby

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 7:54 am

thunderstorm wrote:

I thought that a non-Jewish taxi driver swerved around some traffic and hit a mother who was pushing a stroller and walking with her kids. I didn't think that it was someone who identifies as frum.

To me, if someone is dressed like a frum person, I would trust their kashrus.

southernbubby

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 8:08 am

In another thread, were discussing the Jewish gangster/mobsters who once reigned certain neighborhoods by violent means and some of these cutthroat killers are buried in Orthodox cemeteries.
It isn't rare for minyonim who are missing the tenth man to stop strangers on the street and ask if they are Jewish. This happens in airports and hospitals or anywhere where any Jew will do.

Ruchel

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 8:10 am

Blessing1 wrote:

Urban gypsy, a jewish man who doesn't keep shabbos cannot be counted for a minyan.

lie

Ruchel

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 8:10 am

Cheiny wrote:

They also are not allowed to be buried in a Jewish cemetery according to a shiur I heard from a well respected Rov.

lie