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A PSA from my teenage daughter and me - sheitels
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:21 am
OP,

Would you also ask a Rebbe to stop pulling on his beard or twirling his peyos? What about a rebbes that moves back and forth as he learns? Would you tell him he must sit still? Or a Rebbe that straightens his tie or shoots his cuffs before he speaks?
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amother




Hotpink


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:28 am
Squishy wrote:
OP,

Would you also ask a Rebbe to stop pulling on his beard or twirling his peyos? What about a rebbes that moves back and forth as he learns? Would you tell him he must sit still? Or a Rebbe that straightens his tie or shoots his cuffs before he speaks?


Did you ever work as a professional? Would you show up to work with hair in your face if you had a business meeting?
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:35 am
Squishy wrote:
OP,

Would you also ask a Rebbe to stop pulling on his beard or twirling his peyos? What about a rebbes that moves back and forth as he learns? Would you tell him he must sit still? Or a Rebbe that straightens his tie or shoots his cuffs before he speaks?


I'm not sure why my post is rubbing you the wrong way to this extent.

Where do you see me requesting, asking, telling someone they MUST do something? I've said this so many times in this post. This is a PSA. Letting teachers know this is distracting to some girls and to please consider doing something to stop the sheitel from getting into their faces and stop flicking their head. I never used the word request or anything to connotate a demand or instruction. I was clear and careful to suggest and make aware.

Hair in the face is not an issue for a rebbe. If a rebbe wore his hat with a brim so low down that the boys could not see his eyes, or if he had that gross habit of sticking his peyos in his mouth then yes, I would say something in an imamother post*. The eyes and mouth are both important for communication skills.

*Note - no where did I even HINT that this was something I would say in person. This is a post on a website.
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:35 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
Did you ever work as a professional? Would you show up to work with hair in your face if you had a business meeting?


I have worked as a high level professional. I couldn't work with hair in my face. Without conscious thought, I would French braid my hair. I worked at a desk and couldn't have my hair on my keyboard.

I think it is up to the teachers and principals how the teachers present themselves. As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, it's bizarre to the uninitiated when a room full of women do the sheital flip.

Teachers deserve not to have their appearance and mannerisms discussed.
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OOTforlife




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:36 am
Is it really controversial that repeatedly messing with one's hair (or facial hair if male) while speaking is unprofessional? Maybe there are other faraway cultures where it's not so, but in the U.S. for sure.

The question of whether it's appropriate for a student to point out a teacher's unprofessional but mostly harmless behavior to her mother, to the teacher, or to others is a completely separate one.
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amother




Babypink


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:41 am
A "hair toss" is generally interpreted as a z3xual signal, that a woman (general the tosser) is interested.

Quote:
From a psychological point of view the explanation of this unconscious move is simple. Since that woman found a man attractive she unconsciously felt like revealing a part of her skin to that man, that is the skin of the neck and the one around the ear. See Body Language's Love Signals and other signals


So yeah, a teacher repeatedly tossing her hair in the classroom is not only annoying and distracting, its inappropriate.

Touching hair or pushing it out of the way is different, but still distracting and annoying. Same for twirling payos and stroking beard.

The answer is school dress codes that are applied to teachers, requiring that their hair (real or wig) be styled in a manner that keeps it off her face. It shouldn't be necessary, but I guess it is.
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amother




Hotpink


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:44 am
Squishy wrote:
I have worked as a high level professional. I couldn't work with hair in my face. Without conscious thought, I would French braid my hair. I worked at a desk and couldn't have my hair on my keyboard.

I think it is up to the teachers and principals how the teachers present themselves. As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, it's bizarre to the uninitiated when a room full of women do the sheital flip.

Teachers deserve not to have their appearance and mannerisms discussed.


Students deserve to walk into a class with a teacher who is appropriately prepared.
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amother




Silver


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:50 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
Students deserve to walk into a class with a teacher who is appropriately prepared.


I can hear it being a distraction, but my impression is that you're making this into a much stronger issue than it actually is. Sort of making a mountain of a molehill.

So the teacher constantly flips her sheitel. Your daughter is a big girl, teach her a coping skill or two, and move on.
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Blessing1




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:54 am
Amother silver, it has nothing to do with coping skills. It's extremely distracting and hard to concentrate, as well as very annoying.
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amother




Hotpink


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 11:56 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
I can hear it being a distraction, but my impression is that you're making this into a much stronger issue than it actually is. Sort of making a mountain of a molehill.

So the teacher constantly flips her sheitel. Your daughter is a big girl, teach her a coping skill or two, and move on.


I'm not OP.

Teachers should walk into the classroom prepared to teach. If they are wearing a sheitel. that requires constant adjustment, they are not prepared to teach.
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Squishy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:04 pm
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
Students deserve to walk into a class with a teacher who is appropriately prepared.


Then men should be subject to the same standards. Men should be told to stop twirling or pulling or tugging or moving.

Better yet, we should have computers teach the kids because humans have mannerisms.
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:05 pm
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
I can hear it being a distraction, but my impression is that you're making this into a much stronger issue than it actually is. Sort of making a mountain of a molehill.

So the teacher constantly flips her sheitel. Your daughter is a big girl, teach her a coping skill or two, and move on.


The teacher is also a big girl. I asked this before - if you were a teacher, presumably you took teaching courses. I hope. Maybe even a degree. You invested time into your craft. You spend oodles of your own money on supplies for the classroom. You are invested. Wouldn't you want to know if there was some way you could make a tiny tweek that would change your impact in the classroom? Spend $1 on a pack of bobby pins and nothing else required? I truly fail to understand why so many people are reading into this post what is not there.
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amother




Hotpink


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:07 pm
Squishy wrote:
Then men should be subject to the same standards. Men should be told to stop twirling or pulling or tugging or moving.

Better yet, we should have computers teach the kids because humans have mannerisms.


Men should show up to the classroom prepared to teach - and their students should feel more than comfortable complaining to their parents if they are not.
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:07 pm
Squishy wrote:
Then men should be subject to the same standards. Men should be told to stop twirling or pulling or tugging or moving.

Better yet, we should have computers teach the kids because humans have mannerisms.


Again - who is TELLING anyone what to do? This is a simple PSA to make teachers aware of something. And I said that if a male teacher had his eyes blocked or was constantly flicking his head, I would make the same PSA to him. Same standards.
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:12 pm
Squishy wrote:
Then men should be subject to the same standards. Men should be told to stop twirling or pulling or tugging or moving.


They absolutely should. Both men and women can benefit from this advice. It's literally public speaking 101.
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amother




Green


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:22 pm
I don't wear a sheitel or teach at a Jewish school so I can't speak to this particular issue, but it's rubbing me the wrong way and I'm trying to articulate why. As a teacher, I put an enormous amount of effort into preparing my students. I'm going to professional developments and conferences all over to learn the newest strategies and state testing rubrics. I'm poring over the IEPs and 504 plans for each and every student that has one. I'm teaching in oversized classes. I'm modifying and scaffolding my lesson for each student, giving them differentiated work that meets their skill level, along with being the appropriate rigor for their unique needs. I'm spending hours planning assessments that are meaningful and backwards-designed to the unit goals. I teach an extra Regents prep class to help the students who failed but need to pass to graduate. I'm providing emotional support to students who have traumatic home life experiences. I'm writing recommendation letters and helping kids with their college essays on my own time. I'm constantly editing and updating my practice to reflect the latest expectations in education. And at the end of all this, the thing worth writing a post about is that my hair is in my face too often? All the issues in the education system and this is the PSA? I understand the impulse to assume it was satire.
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amother




Mauve


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:24 pm
But amother Green, wouldn't it be a shame if you invested all that effort and your students got distracted by your choice of sheitel style? Wouldn't you want to know if a simple tweak could improve student concentration and their ability to appreciate all of that immensely hard work that you do?
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amother




Hotpink


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:29 pm
amother [ Green ] wrote:
I don't wear a sheitel or teach at a Jewish school so I can't speak to this particular issue, but it's rubbing me the wrong way and I'm trying to articulate why. As a teacher, I put an enormous amount of effort into preparing my students. I'm going to professional developments and conferences all over to learn the newest strategies and state testing rubrics. I'm poring over the IEPs and 504 plans for each and every student that has one. I'm teaching in oversized classes. I'm modifying and scaffolding my lesson for each student, giving them differentiated work that meets their skill level, along with being the appropriate rigor for their unique needs. I'm spending hours planning assessments that are meaningful and backwards-designed to the unit goals. I teach an extra Regents prep class to help the students who failed but need to pass to graduate. I'm providing emotional support to students who have traumatic home life experiences. I'm writing recommendation letters and helping kids with their college essays on my own time. I'm constantly editing and updating my practice to reflect the latest expectations in education. And at the end of all this, the thing worth writing a post about is that my hair is in my face too often? All the issues in the education system and this is the PSA? I understand the impulse to assume it was satire.


Because all of your efforts are wasted if you and your students are distracted by headwear designed for style before function.
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amother




Silver


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 12:48 pm
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
Because all of your efforts are wasted if you and your students are distracted by headwear designed for style before function.


Would you say the same if the teacher is constantly twirling pens in her hand, or casing the room side to side, or rearranging the brim of his hat and so on? Teachers are humans, with unique mannerisms & tics, and unless you want some very self-conscious teachers out there, it's part of the deal.

You'll find people with annoying behaviors all through life. Even in the professional world. You can have annoying co-workers, bosses, & underlings. And unless you want to alienate everyone around you, you need to develop your own coping methods.

Of course people can be gently reminded to lessen impacts, but never in an expected and demanding manner. The boss can send a company wide memo, the principals can make all teachers aware, but never in an upfront, suggestive manner. It's very discomforting to a person to be told that their subconscious quirks are being focused on, and it can affect their future performance. OP, your opening statement is what ruffled my feathers (and no, I'm not & never was a teacher). You came across as very strong and bothered about a little quirk, and had a whole bunch of suggestions ready for the teacher, but none for your daughter. I still remember my high school days, where we discussed and laughed at all kinds of different quirks or annoying mannerisms that teachers' displayed. And we figured out how to learn the subject on hand, despite the level of annoyance. If you were talking about younger students, I'd get you much more.
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ddmom




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 18 2019, 1:10 pm
Op I agree 100%! It's very distracting!
In elementary schools, I know that teachers very often wear their shabbos sheitels during events when they meet the mothers. They wear something else when they are with the students.
Not sure what happens in high schools.
I don't understand why some ppl are getting so attacked by your post, all it's doing is pointing a problem, do whatever you want with the information!
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