A PSA from my teenage daughter and me - sheitels

OOTforlife

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 1:18 pm

Some subconscious quirks are very difficult or impossible to avoid, others are easier to avoid. People can choose whether to set themselves up for success or failure.

If I have a habit of nervous foot tapping, I can't exactly cut off my feet. All I can do is try to stop. And maybe wear less noisy shoes.

If I have a habit of nervous pen clicking, however, then I should avoid bringing click pens with me to meetings. There are plenty of non-clickable pens to choose from. Or, if I'm very attached to my lucky pen, I could add some superglue to hold the click part in place.

Wearing a hair style that falls in one's face is setting up for failure during a step in the process when the person has full control and the subconscious is not a factor. Even if the person doesn't have any hair-related quirks, they're going to have hair in their face and need to move it repeatedly. Thus, such hairstyles should be avoided in most professional environments. No need for all the deflection.

amother

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 1:24 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

I don't wear a sheitel or teach at a Jewish school so I can't speak to this particular issue, but it's rubbing me the wrong way and I'm trying to articulate why. As a teacher, I put an enormous amount of effort into preparing my students. I'm going to professional developments and conferences all over to learn the newest strategies and state testing rubrics. I'm poring over the IEPs and 504 plans for each and every student that has one. I'm teaching in oversized classes. I'm modifying and scaffolding my lesson for each student, giving them differentiated work that meets their skill level, along with being the appropriate rigor for their unique needs. I'm spending hours planning assessments that are meaningful and backwards-designed to the unit goals. I teach an extra Regents prep class to help the students who failed but need to pass to graduate. I'm providing emotional support to students who have traumatic home life experiences. I'm writing recommendation letters and helping kids with their college essays on my own time. I'm constantly editing and updating my practice to reflect the latest expectations in education. And at the end of all this, the thing worth writing a post about is that my hair is in my face too often? All the issues in the education system and this is the PSA? I understand the impulse to assume it was satire.

Thank you for the work you do. I know you are underappreciated and I wish that was not the case. You clearly are a teacher who goes above and beyond.

I do wonder if you would understand this post differently if you wore a sheitel, or knew exactly what I am referring to.

Having said that, if you go to this immense effort in your professional training and know to reach every student, surly you have taken classes in public speaking, classroom management, etc, and know that something that is controllable such as hair in a face in such a way which necessitates CONSTANT flicking, not exaggerating, which is far more than just hair in your face, is something that can be helped so easily?

Blueberry Muffin

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 1:27 pm

Squishy wrote:

OP,

Would you also ask a Rebbe to stop pulling on his beard or twirling his peyos? What about a rebbes that moves back and forth as he learns? Would you tell him he must sit still? Or a Rebbe that straightens his tie or shoots his cuffs before he speaks?

These were my thoughts exactly - Would you ever "just throw it out there" and make a suggestion to any Rebbi or Shul Rabbi or Male Speaker or someone giving a dvar torah at Sheva Brachot to put clips on his yalmulka bc its distracting every 20 seconds that he's pulling it in place? Or the constant shukeling when sharing dvar torah or a speech? Professionals do not sway back and forth when they are in the same position infront of a crowd. And pulling at beards too - all these mannerisms or "tics" are quite distracting, but most people would never make a PSA or directly suggest it to a Rabbi/Rebbi/Male Speaker.

The OP seems to put the suggestion out there quite harshly and seems to find a need to constantly defend her original post, yet the wording and harshness of the way she expressed herself is clearly turning people off from her suggestions. She said "Some people really agree with me and for others, it seems to be touching a nerve." - Op that is putting others who disagree with you down - you clearly have no respect and are not open to others opinions - you could have said something along the lines as some people agree with you and some people do not see this as an issue, but the fact that you assume those who don't agree with you are offended by your post ("it seems to be touching a nerve") is extremely accusatory.

I am not here to go against your opinion that flipping hair is distracting. I have posted to let you know that there are many things both male and female speakers do that can be distracting and there is a way to get your point across without being so harsh and against those who don't share your opinion.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 1:39 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

Would you say the same if the teacher is constantly twirling pens in her hand, or casing the room side to side, or rearranging the brim of his hat and so on? Teachers are humans, with unique mannerisms & tics, and unless you want some very self-conscious teachers out there, it's part of the deal.

You'll find people with annoying behaviors all through life. Even in the professional world. You can have annoying co-workers, bosses, & underlings. And unless you want to alienate everyone around you, you need to develop your own coping methods.

Of course people can be gently reminded to lessen impacts, but never in an expected and demanding manner. The boss can send a company wide memo, the principals can make all teachers aware, but never in an upfront, suggestive manner. It's very discomforting to a person to be told that their subconscious quirks are being focused on, and it can affect their future performance. OP, your opening statement is what ruffled my feathers (and no, I'm not & never was a teacher). You came across as very strong and bothered about a little quirk, and had a whole bunch of suggestions ready for the teacher, but none for your daughter. I still remember my high school days, where we discussed and laughed at all kinds of different quirks or annoying mannerisms that teachers' displayed. And we figured out how to learn the subject on hand, despite the level of annoyance. If you were talking about younger students, I'd get you much more.

Humans have mannerisms and tics. Agreed.

Choosing to put on a wig that requires constant adjusting isn't a mannerism or tic.

If I was a principal - and I sat at the back of Mrs. X's class and saw her pushing hair our of her face regularly - I would show up the next day, compliment her lesson and give her a nice box of clips. My job is to help my teachers improve.

To compare - I've taken pens away from junior staff who can't hold them without twirling. Yes it was driving me crazy - but more importantly - it would drive a paying client crazy.

BrachaC

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 1:55 pm

Most BY High schools now have "hair" rules- about pulling their hair away from their faces and back in a pony if longer than shoulder length...I have heard my sister- who teaches- harshly defend the rules- it would seem obvious that the teachers are supposed to model what the school is looking for their students to do.

I went to a back to school night this year and the Morah was wearing a perfectly acceptable shaitel- not too long, not too curly... but it was cut in the way that all the layers fall forward so that it was difficult to see her face- I'm sure it is distracting for the students. If the administrators can stand at the front door each morning, look our daughters up and down and tell them what to do with their hair then I think they should do the same with the staff.

amother

Indigo

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 2:03 pm

I teach adults, mostly. I want them to learn and have a good learning experience. If I had a distracting mannerism—and I probably do—I would want to be told so that I could do something about it. I’m careful to avoid clanking jewelry, dangly fringe and other wardrobe elements that will divert attention from the subject matter.

There is a certain inspirational speaker who is much admired in many circles. She doesn’t do the sheitel flip exclusively—she also does a certain head tilt that I imagine is meant to be winsome—and both gestures are so frequent that I can’t listen to her, period. Yes, I should try to get over my antipathy, ignore the crummy wrapping and appreciate the valuable lessons inside, but could YOU ignore a fly buzzing around your head? Her mannerisms are irritating just like that fly.

I once attended a lecture by a professor with a comb-over so precarious, and head movements so vigorous, the class was on shpilkes waiting for the combover to slide off. We didn’t learn much.

The teachers should be told. Their job is to facilitate the learning, and if something they are doing is interfering with the process, they need to cut it out. Note that I said something they DO, not something they ARE. If a teacher has an unsightly physical feature that can’t be camouflaged, so be it.

urban gypsy

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 2:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yes, if a rebbe's hat brim was covering his eyes or his peyos were in his mouth, yes I would start a PSA thread here as well.

This thread is giving me such fond memories of all my wonderful high school rebbeim who chewed their beards and twirled their peyos during lessons. I say that without a shread of sarcasm! Heart

Shukeling is not so bad unless it is very extreme I think.

iluvy

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 2:19 pm

I am a teacher (not in a Jewish setting). Yesterday I had a major presentation to make with significant implications for my career. I spent the ten minutes before the presentation in the bathroom tweaking and adjusting my sheitel to make sure it would stay in one place and not fall in a funny way during my presentation. I was thinking about how all the extra labor (not to mention $$$$) a frum married woman has to do in the workplace to look presentable - natural hair is much easier to deal with; you can't just tuck a sheitel behind an ear as easily. A man or woman who doesn't cover her hair could have spent that time reviewing the presentation or just relaxing.

Teachers are usually intellectual people. We are hired for our minds and our scholarship, and that is the most significant factor in our doing a good job. At the same time, we have to spend so much time/$ - time/$ that men don't have to spend - on our appearance, making sure we look professional and perfectly put together. This is much worse for female teachers teaching teenage and preteen students.

I think people are reacting to the lack of empathy in your post, which doesn't acknowledge alllllll the things teachers have to manage and deal with in order to do their jobs, and fixates in a very strident way on a very minor detail.

If my daughter came home and told me this about a teacher of hers, I would say, first of all, that it's not her job to worry about what her teacher wears. If she would whine that it makes it impossible for her to pay attention, I would tell her that it's her job to learn how to pay attention regardless of distractors, whether it's a kid next to her clicking a pen or her teacher's mannerisms. A wise person can learn from anyone - this is basic chinuch.

If I honestly believed that this is really preventing her from learning, I would take her to a psychiatrist. A child who cannot absorb information because the person speaking is sweeping hair out of her eyes is going to end up like this person one day.

33055

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 4:43 pm

iluvy wrote:

ITA. I was pitying poor OP's daughter. What happens IRL when her mil has a distracting mannerism or her boss. With a mom like this, she may never learn coping skills. OP needs to redirect the conversation.

amother

Navy

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 4:52 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Dear teachers, my teenage daughter is very distracted by the way some of you constantly sweep your sheitel out of your face. It makes her crazy. And her friends crazy. Yes, they talk about you doing this. When you have bangs that cover your eyes, it takes away from their desire to try to make eye contact with you. The “head jerk” you do to get the hair out of your face is constant. Its annoying. It really detracts from your classroom presence in general.

Can I suggest a “school” sheitel that you can clip back? Bangs a bit shorter? Something - anything - to stop your hands from flying to your face every 10 seconds. If you were not in a sheitel, this would not be an issue. Or a fall. Or a tichel. I know not everyone wants to or can wear a tichel or fall, just using that to illustrate. This is a problem that all girls talk about but no one mentions.

At PTA, it makes ME crazy too! Hands constantly flying to your face truly distracts from what you are trying to say.

Thank you for taking my suggestion under consideration.

Amother because I discussed this in real life very recently.

(and I edited the title so no one reads it and thinks anyone is dictating anyone to do anything. That is so not the point here. My intention is to make teachers aware that this is a thing.)

Not to criticize but please change the title of thread to “daughter and me.” That’s not correct grammar.

And I think this overannoyance with such a non issue is bizarre.

amother

Navy

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 4:53 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Its not LH for a teen to tell her mother what bothers her about her teachers. She needs to communicate these things to us. And if you think teens dont talk about their teachers to each other, you would be very wrong. Right or wrong, its what they do. You never discussed your teachers with your friends as a teen?

The sheitel flip does not need to be a thing. It means the style is wrong for you if you cant wear a wig and not develop a tic.

Um this is not your business or your daughter’s.

amother

Navy

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 4:55 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

A million years ago when I was in high school, we had a teacher who made us pin back our hair when it was in our faces. She claimed it was disrespectful not to make eye contact in class. I suppose that goes both ways.

ETA: I think this is the kind of thing that the parents can mention to the teacher.

I feel it’s insanity if they tell the teacher what kind of sheitel to wear or what to do with it!!!

amother

Silver

Wed, Sep 18 2019, 5:03 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Please show me where I told the teacher what to do with her sheitel. Thanks.

"Can I suggest a “school” sheitel that you can clip back? Bangs a bit shorter? Something - anything - to stop your hands from flying to your face every 10 seconds. If you were not in a sheitel, this would not be an issue. Or a fall. Or a tichel. I know not everyone wants to or can wear a tichel or fall, just using that to illustrate."

A sugar coated suggestion is pretty transparent. If you had made this statement to the teacher, and she ignores it & brushes it completely aside, how would you respond?