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Expect to be treated differently if not dressed tzniut?
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:45 am
Being different period.
Expect being treated sometimes different being tznius too
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:51 am
OP... It may have nothing to do with tznius.
The same exact thing happened to us in Indianapolis and St Louis , 15 years ago when we were shopping for an OOT community.

The Rebbitzen and the shul secretary , and a few people we met invited me, and was trying to convince me to move there.

Several people told my husband hesitantly about a hotel.
Probably because I had social skills, and lets just say I was teaching my husband how to speak to people, lol..

He has improved drastically, since then
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leah233




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 10:01 am
Raisin wrote:
OP, if you met 2 women, one of whom was wearing a covered sheital and brown stockings and spoke english with a strong yiddish accent, and the other dressed similarly to you, went to the same camps and similar schools - which one would you rather invite for a shabbos meal?


I once read in a Chasidish Yiddish language publication a response to the accusation that Chasidim are snobs, only do Chesed between themselves etc. the following challenge:

If fifty families of strangers had to be in town for Shabbos what do you think would be easier? Finding Chasdim willing to host them if they are anti Chasidim or finding people who are anti Chasidim willing to host them is they are Chasidim?

As that writer continued he would have no problem whatsoever finding hosts for the anti Chasidim group by Chasidim. If you are anti Chasidim can you say the same for your community?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:13 am
amother [ Silver ] wrote:
I am not trying to derail the thread, but I had a similar experience.
My highly sensory, oppositional nine year old was picked up from his chasidish yeshiva for slightly wetting his pants. I took him to work to a non chasidish neighborhood and stopped in a boys' shop to buy him a change of clothes.
He stood at the door while I bought pants. He insisted on a colorful shabos sweater hanging on the wall. There was a back and forth discussion between me, him and the helpful saleslady, since some styles and colors were not available in his size.
I translated his Yiddish, when the salesgirl said: "what do you think, you are the only ones speaking Yiddish?"
She was tznius according to all the Rabbis in the world, but she did not look like she could speak today's BP/Willy Yiddish, anymore than I look like I speak Chinese.
I felt very bad for inadvertently hurting a human being.


That's just plain ridiculous.

IMNSHO -- heck, its not an opinion, its fact -- its polite to converse in the language of the land unless you know that everyone present speaks another language. You were being POLITE. It was the salesperson who was rude.

FTR, I don't speak a word of Yiddish.
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:56 am
Raisin wrote:
OP, if you met 2 women, one of whom was wearing a covered sheital and brown stockings and spoke english with a strong yiddish accent, and the other dressed similarly to you, went to the same camps and similar schools - which one would you rather invite for a shabbos meal?


Not OP but I would assume, rightly or wrongly, that your charedi lady wouldn’t trust my kashrut anyway.
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urban gypsy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 12:33 pm
This is very mystifying. In my experience (Chabad and NCSY-type yeshivish) people are MORE likely to want to host "not-yet-frum" people than already frum people. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps she assumed you wouldn't be comfortable staying at their home and you would be more likely to come if you knew there were hotels within walking distance? I have no idea what effect your clothing had on the situation. I've never heard a rebbetzin suggest a hotel EVER. Was she really young??? I am at a loss here.
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amother




Mint


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 5:41 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
we're thinking of moving to an OOT city. the city has two different areas and we're considering both areas. we recently spent a shabbat in area #1.

on shabbat, we met several people who live in area #2 but were spending shabbos in area #1. they all offered to host us when we come back to visit area #2.

on sunday, we decided to drive over to area #2 just to check out the shul and the area. we walked into the shul.

we're MO and I cover hair and dress tzniut on shabbat and at weekday events in the community I happen to go to. I don't otherwise wear tzniut or cover my hair during the week. so when we walked into the shul, I was in "normal" clothing. nothing trashy; just not the tzniut look. (husband was wearing a t-shirt and jeans and a knit kippah.)

at the shul, the associate rabbi and his wife happened to be in the building and we started talking to them. rabbi and husband talked amongst themselves, and I talked to the rabbi's wife.

the rabbi gave my husband is cell phone # and, unsolicited, offered to host us when we come back to visit area #2 for shabbat.

the rabbi's wife said something to me like, "if you want to come visit us for a shabbat, we have a couple hotels nearby."

it just struck me as a really odd thing to say since several others who attend that shul -- including her own husband -- offered to host us. we'd also talked to the senior rabbi on the phone and he offered to either host us himself or find a place for us.

I can't help but think that she judged me as not in the club because I wasn't dressed tzniut enough, and that if I had ran into her dressed in shabbos clothes, she would have offered to host us.

it's not a big deal, but am I right to be slightly offended by her judging me in this manner?


That’s a ridiculous assumption, how do you know it’s not because they intend to host you for meals but done have enough room to provide sleeping accommodations?
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amother




Mint


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 5:42 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
OP here... thanks for the responses. yeah, I'm not positive I'm correct, of course. it's just my instinct.

by the way, nothing I said would have made her thought that we wanted to stay in a hotel. what's weird is that her comment was totally out of the blue.


I get what you're saying. from the context of our convo and our overall appearance, I would think it was pretty clear that we were at religious to some degree. husband was wearing a kippah, I told her where we live (a religious area), I told her who we had with stayed for shabbat (a very yeshivish rabbi).

might not have been clear to her that we were SS/SK. but even if it wasn't clear to her, it should have been clear enough that we were serious jews and a family they would want to join their OOT shul.


Why does she owe you an explanation if she has personal reasons why she can’t have overnight sleeping guests?
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Raisin




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 5:54 pm
zaq wrote:
Not OP but I would assume, rightly or wrongly, that your charedi lady wouldn’t trust my kashrut anyway.


Good point. Smile Maybe I should have said, hang out together.
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amother




Tangerine


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 7:11 pm
maybe shes just exhausted and doesn't want overnight guests right now but forgot to give her husband that memo. I doubt it has anything to do with how you are dressed.
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nechamashifra




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 7:32 pm
To answer your question, it sounds like YOU expect to be treated differently based on clothing since out of all the million reasons a person would not be able to put you up for the night (yet still wants to host you during the day), that's the reason you chose to assume. To me it sounds as off base as assuming someone wouldn't want to host me because of a mosquito bite on my forehead.
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Kiwi13




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 8:10 pm
If the community is in a popular vacation spot, like south Florida, it’s possible they get flooded with requests for invites and can’t accommodate a nonstop flood of guests.
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amother




Apricot


Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 11:41 pm
My DH is much quicker to invite guests. He’ll just invite. But our house is small and guests are near kids and it doesn’t make me so comfortable having strangers in such tight quarters. So I do research and have them for meals before sleeping. And we have lots of guests.
So if DH was to invite you for sleeping I probably wouldn’t invite you as fast.
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ysdm




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Sep 20 2019, 12:56 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
OP... It may have nothing to do with tznius.
The same exact thing happened to us in Indianapolis and St Louis , 15 years ago when we were shopping for an OOT community.

The Rebbitzen and the shul secretary , and a few people we met invited me, and was trying to convince me to move there.

Several people told my husband hesitantly about a hotel.
Probably because I had social skills, and lets just say I was teaching my husband how to speak to people, lol..

He has improved drastically, since then

Aw man. It's a great community which rav? You can pm me
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Sep 20 2019, 11:55 am
While we're on the subject, I don't know why anyone who knows the difference would not don her most tzanua outfit if she was going to meet the rabbi and rebbetzin. The uninititated may not realize that their mode of dress is considered immodest or offensive in some circles, but OP, you do know the difference and admit that you dress more modestly to go to shul. Why would you not accord the rabbi and his wife the same respect?
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, Sep 24 2019, 6:25 pm
Checking back in. A lot of good responses from many, but I think some folks missed the point. The point isn't whether she personally had the ability to host us. The point is why she didn't say something more enthusiastic like, "we'd love to have guys come back and visit our shul for a shabbos, we're usually able to arrange for someone in the community to host you, or if you prefer we also have a nice hotel nearby." what she said just seemed cold and distant, and very different than what we experienced from everyone else in this particular OOT community and in other OOT communities we're looking at. but maybe she wasn't cold and distant because of how I was dressed, and she is the associate rabbi's wife and not the rebbitzen or she was having a bad day or something else.

zaq wrote:
While we're on the subject, I don't know why anyone who knows the difference would not don her most tzanua outfit if she was going to meet the rabbi and rebbetzin. The uninititated may not realize that their mode of dress is considered immodest or offensive in some circles, but OP, you do know the difference and admit that you dress more modestly to go to shul. Why would you not accord the rabbi and his wife the same respect?


Something tells me you didn't read the OP, particularly this part: "at the shul, the associate rabbi and his wife happened to be in the building" Smile
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Sep 24 2019, 7:47 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Checking back in. A lot of good responses from many, but I think some folks missed the point. The point isn't whether she personally had the ability to host us. The point is why she didn't say something more enthusiastic like, "we'd love to have guys come back and visit our shul for a shabbos, we're usually able to arrange for someone in the community to host you, or if you prefer we also have a nice hotel nearby." what she said just seemed cold and distant, and very different than what we experienced from everyone else in this particular OOT community and in other OOT communities we're looking at. but maybe she wasn't cold and distant because of how I was dressed, and she is the associate rabbi's wife and not the rebbitzen or she was having a bad day or something else.

Something tells me you didn't read the OP, particularly this part: "at the shul, the associate rabbi and his wife happened to be in the building" Smile


Again I ask: if you’re checking out a shul, why would you not plan and dress accordingly? Even if you’re only delivering a check or attending a yoga class, it’s grossly disrespectful of the synagogue to dress in a manner inappropriate to the sanctity of the place.

And why would you be unprepared to run into the rabbi or his associate? Even if services are not going on, the rabbi does work there. Being a rabbi is not just leading Shabbat services and giving a sermon, you know.

Quite honestly, you sound as if you were looking for something to be offended about.
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amother




OP


Post  Wed, Sep 25 2019, 1:54 am
zaq wrote:
Again I ask: if you’re checking out a shul, why would you not plan and dress accordingly? Even if you’re only delivering a check or attending a yoga class, it’s grossly disrespectful of the synagogue to dress in a manner inappropriate to the sanctity of the place.

And why would you be unprepared to run into the rabbi or his associate? Even if services are not going on, the rabbi does work there. Being a rabbi is not just leading Shabbat services and giving a sermon, you know.

Quite honestly, you sound as if you were looking for something to be offended about.


"grossly disrespectful"? "in a manner inappropriate to the sanctity of the place"? again, you didn't read the OP. you seem to have it in your mind that I was wearing a bikini, but I wasn't. my non-tzniut attire would have been perfectly normal attire at any MO shul on shabbat. and this particular OOT shul has a mix of all sorts of frum and not so frum people.

your tone is really condescending, talking to me as if I'm too stupid to know that a rabbi does more than lead shabbat services.

no, I'm not looking to get offended. we had a great shabbat visit to shul #1 and would happily visit shul #2 because all the other shul #2 people we met were really warm and welcoming. I'm just asking a question. chill. Smile
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Sep 25 2019, 2:02 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Checking back in. A lot of good responses from many, but I think some folks missed the point. The point isn't whether she personally had the ability to host us. The point is why she didn't say something more enthusiastic like, "we'd love to have guys come back and visit our shul for a shabbos, we're usually able to arrange for someone in the community to host you, or if you prefer we also have a nice hotel nearby." what she said just seemed cold and distant, and very different than what we experienced from everyone else in this particular OOT community and in other OOT communities we're looking at. but maybe she wasn't cold and distant because of how I was dressed, and she is the associate rabbi's wife and not the rebbitzen or she was having a bad day or something else.


OP, if you would like to PM me, then I'm going to take a shot at guessing which community you were visiting. If my guess is right, then I can tell you a little more about the assistant rabbi's wife, which would help you understand her response.

Either way, I hope it didn't put you off of visiting - it sounds like a wonderful community, and I hope you find your place there, or somewhere equally warm!
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