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How to change school approach
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 5:42 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
If you are not happy take out!!! I Love the principal and staff never had a problem and these girls were awfully chutzpahdig my daughter came home telling me how rude the 2 girls are and even 1 girl used "language " to the teacher in front of the class!!!!!!!!!


Good for you that you are happy,I'd also like to be happy, are you okay with that?can I also be happy?will it affect your happiness if the school does try to change to a more positive approach in general?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 5:46 pm
OP, I agree that you should never shame another Jew in public. That applies to children as well as adults, and makes a lasting impression on both the ones shamed, and the ones watching.

I think that the girls should have been pulled out privately, and then the teacher should tell the class that "Chani and Shani won't be back for a few days, because they were suspended. That kind of behavior will not be tolerated in my class, and there will be consequences."

The other kids most definitely need to know that the chutzpadik kids got in big trouble. Otherwise, other girls might start getting the idea that it's OK for them to be rude, too.

It's the beginning of the year, and the kids are testing the waters. They want to know how strong or weak a teacher is, and what buttons they can push. Every good teacher knows that they have to set the tone at the beginning of the year, or the rest of the year will be a free for all.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 5:48 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
OP, I agree that you should never shame another Jew in public. That applies to children as well as adults, and makes a lasting impression on both the ones shamed, and the ones watching.

I think that the girls should have been pulled out privately, and then the teacher should tell the class that "Chani and Shani won't be back for a few days, because they were suspended. That kind of behavior will not be tolerated in my class, and there will be consequences."

The other kids most definitely need to know that the chutzpadik kids got in big trouble. Otherwise, other girls might start getting the idea that it's OK for them to be rude, too.

It's the beginning of the year, and the kids are testing the waters. They want to know how strong or weak a teacher is, and what buttons they can push. Every good teacher knows that they have to set the tone at the beginning of the year, or the rest of the year will be a free for all.


This is exactly how I believe it should of been done!!!! And it wasn't at all.
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boat




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 6:09 pm
Curious why you need to name the school on a public forum. You are seeking advice on the situation from the public, majority of whom don't even know the school you are referring to.
I would advise you to modify your title and op to take out the school name. As such, you can still take people's advice on the situation. Its not so simple halachicly to provide such detail ....
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 6:10 pm
boat wrote:
Curious why you need to name the school on a public forum. You are seeking advice on the situation from the public, majority of whom don't even know the school you are referring to.
I would advise you to modify your title and op to take out the school name. As such, you can still take people's advice on the situation. Its not so simple halachicly to provide such detail ....


How do I edit title
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 6:13 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How do I edit title


Go to the first post, and in the upper right hand there's an icon that says "edit" and has a pencil next to it. When you click that, the post will change to one you can rewrite, and then click "submit" to put it back with the new changes.
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amother




Rose
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 6:18 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How do I edit title

I just want to commend you, OP, for taking the advice/suggestion to edit the title right away, and not being stubborn. You're a good mother and a good Jew who wants to do the right thing. I am proud to have a parent like you as a fellow mother in my daughter's school.
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amother




Bisque
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 6:39 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Yes it should be that the adult of the school should suspend and deal with these children privately and not in front of a whole class regardless if the kids are "just" troublemakers


The point I'm making is you clearly have a difference of opinion here than the adult who choose to handle the situation they way she did - and at that without actually hearing about the situation from an adult.

There isn't 'one way'. Same as parenting.

Like the other posters said - focus on the impact of what happened on your daughter - and let the school know, gently how upset she was with what she saw. Maybe that was intent, maybe it wasn't.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 7:07 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
OP, I agree that you should never shame another Jew in public. That applies to children as well as adults, and makes a lasting impression on both the ones shamed, and the ones watching.

I think that the girls should have been pulled out privately, and then the teacher should tell the class that "Chani and Shani won't be back for a few days, because they were suspended. That kind of behavior will not be tolerated in my class, and there will be consequences."

The other kids most definitely need to know that the chutzpadik kids got in big trouble. Otherwise, other girls might start getting the idea that it's OK for them to be rude, too.

It's the beginning of the year, and the kids are testing the waters. They want to know how strong or weak a teacher is, and what buttons they can push. Every good teacher knows that they have to set the tone at the beginning of the year, or the rest of the year will be a free for all.


I disagree. I don't think its ever appropriate to discuss the discipline of one child with another child. I'd be livid.

Frankly, I don't think that being "chutzpadik" should merit a suspension, either. Its using the nuclear option for a relatively minor infringement. Talk to the children separately, and then with their parents. Tell them that certain types of language are not permitted. Make them write a letter of apology and undertake a small chesed project. Tell them that if there is no repeat in 2 months, all is forgiven. If misconduct continues, here's what happens in the future. Everything from staying after school to losing privileges to suspension on the 5th infringement or so.
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 8:27 pm
I agree the approach was not the best way. OP, you can't change the school. You can leave. Or, you can put up with it. But realistically, one parent is not going to change this even assuming what your daughter said is true.

You will be branded that annoying parent. I suggest you find a better fit for your daughter. The big unless is if you are a donor or you have a powerful Rabbi in your corner.
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ddmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 8:42 pm
To all the mothers saying "if you're not happy you can leave", please look up the many, many threads about getting your daughter into school in Lakewood!!
It's really insulting to say that to a mother who's bringing a valid point about her children's education.
No school is perfect.
O.p I really don't think you will get much done on imamother!!!
Make an appointment with the principal or talk to the teacher!!
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professor




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:11 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Yes it should be that the adult of the school should suspend and deal with these children privately and not in front of a whole class regardless if the kids are "just" troublemakers

Calling young children troublemakers without trying to help them is counterproductive
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amother




Puce
 

Post  Thu, Sep 19 2019, 9:18 pm
I assume the person you describe is the principal? Is there a board of directors? (And do you know someone who knows someone on the board? Who can just mention your concerns without mentioning your name?)

DD attended an elementary school that has a sister high school. Evidently some eighth graders were taking this as a license not to be concerned that their behavior might impact their high school acceptance.

One of the members of the hanhallah came in and gave some very strong mussar to the 8th graders, including "not every girl from Bais Z Elementary is automatically accepted to Bais Y High."

DD, a total goodie goodie, came home so traumatized that we ended up medicating her a tad. She spent a week in a sort of panic attack until she calmed down (and of course went to high school etc. and was fine.)

I am certain that the person who spoke did not intend to traumatize anyone, certainly not the children who were behaving just fine. But she came across way too strong. There's that law of unintended consequences.
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