S/O Nashim b'mai zachyan

amother

Orchid

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 2:10 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Most frum people balk at the word "evolution," not really knowing what it means.

The biggest objection to the theory of evolution is the denial that G-d is behind the natural processes.

well, well, well, I love to read any hashkafa or philosophical, historical Chareidi books/seforim.

My father always helped me by providing me reading material. He also cautioned me to stay away from anything written by non-frum authors. and not to read books on evolution by frum authors (yes, they are available, and some of their evolution theories are in line with Torah) not because he disagrees with them because he told me: Torah is endless, why put yourself in a position where you can go down a slippery slope.
Man must not want to know everything, man must not understand everything.
Along the same vein, there is a BT author who wrote books on the Aseres Hashvatim and how some of them are leading a role in the Western nations. There is a tshuva from Rav
Elyashiv wherein he states that we are not to delve into it. The subject remains to be closed to frum Jews.

And he decried disrespecting the non-frum, the non-Jew: he taught us that the average non-jew isbasicly a good, honest person. We should respect, respect, respect and greet. They are hashms children..
I wish I could teach some of us that ethnic groups, non-jews, non-frum Jews ARE hashms children. This does not negate the fact that we have halacha about not following chukas hagoy and that we have a special obligation to be holy etc.

IrenaFr

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 2:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Most frum people balk at the word "evolution," not really knowing what it means.

The biggest objection to the theory of evolution is the denial that G-d is behind the natural processes.

But G-d is behind all the natural processes . There is no prove that all the evolution changes were totally random . On the contrary. Now with discovery of epigenetic even more so. I don't know why can't we all agree that species evolved. We can disagree with the atheists on the driving source behind it .

amother

Orchid

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 3:52 pm

IrenaFr wrote:

nobody has to agree on anything, although I totally get you.

It is just most frum people do not know anything about the subject.
So its best not to discuss it with people who dont know anything about the subject.
And frankly we choose not to know anything about the subject.
It is simply a geder for us not to know anything about the subject.

A number of years ago I started on a book by a frum scientist on evolution and how it many of the theories are in line with the Torah but I simply stopped because I follow the Rabbi in my community, who felt I was crossing a boundary.

amother

Orchid

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 3:57 pm

IrenaFr wrote:

I would love to read on epigenetics.

Could you recommend something?

Thank you.

(Dr. Peter Dadamo is a genius in the field and matches food to the body to heal them.)

IrenaFr

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 4:37 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

nobody has to agree on anything, although I totally get you.

And frankly we choose not to know anything about the subject.
It is simply a geder for us not to know anything about the subject.

.

I don’t understand why is this . More I learn about the history of the Earth and our Universe, how it is build and exist and all the different theories that science came up with , I get more in AWE how really huge and powerful HaShem is . And how we humans tend to make him smaller than he is and more like us . When you don’t see all the complexity of what IS you tend to underestimate HaShem . And ignore his involvement in EVERY cell , atom and even particle in your body and EVERYWHERE around . I see this unfortunate tendency even on this forum .

Last edited by IrenaFr on Wed, Sep 25 2019, 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Seafoam

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 5:39 pm

sequoia wrote:

I haven’t read all the recent comments — has anyone mentioned the whole “men used to have two separate openings” idea?

You deny evolution but sure, a measly 1000 years ago men had drastically different physiology 😂

There’s a difference between micro and macro evolution. It’s problematic hashkafically to say that man evolved from monkeys, but there is no problem with the idea of species changing slightly over the past 6,000 years. Just saying.

sequoia

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 5:42 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Slightly?

Different canals for urine and semen a mere, measly millenium ago is not slightly. It’s an insane idea no one, including those who DO believe in macro-evolution, could ever get behind, unless it were written in the gemarah.

IrenaFr

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 5:54 pm

sequoia wrote:

There are lots of mummies , it’s so easy to check !
And yes, it’s really insane to suggest that it was different a thousandth years ago . This thread made me think that secular studies in Jewish religious schools are really very very very weak if people can believe even THAT.

IrenaFr

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 6:17 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

I would love to read on epigenetics.

Could you recommend something?

Thank you.

(Dr. Peter Dadamo is a genius in the field and matches food to the body to heal them.)

I can’t recommend a book about epigenetic but I read the book “Biology of Belief” by Bruce Lipton about our genes and how they work , interesting information. I don’t buy his ideology but I liked his explanation about how cells of every living creature work . And about our cells intelligence.
I also LOVED the book “Short History of Nearly Everything” by Bill Bryson . He is wrong sometimes and the science is changing all the time BUT the already established facts were mind blowing for me. I have never even imagine the complexity of our Earth . And our Universe. And our bodies , our cells, everything that is on our Earth that is there but we don’t see and I am sure that 99% of people don’t even have an idea that this exists. For understanding (or NOT understanding) our Universe , also mind blowing facts - “We Have No Idea: A Guide to the Unknown Universe ” by professor of experimental particle physics . You can not be not in AWE of the Creator after reading this book .
Yes they both write as atheists but what they describe is just overwhelming.

chmom

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 6:37 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Sigh, Sequoia, you are so right
The theory of evolution does NOT state that humans evolved from monkeys. There is probably a common ancestor but they are NOT our ancestors according to evolution Banging head

amother

Blush

Thu, Jan 02 2020, 8:45 am

What really bothers me is that it says a mans life is worth more than a woman’s and if you can only save one, you save the man and let the woman die. A few years ago on this site a poster said she’s a member of hatzalah in Israel and was actually told to put this in practice when responding to emergencies. To first save the boys and men. Surprised

It’s one thing if a text 2000 years ago says something so misogynistic because I can understand the historical context. But for a woman living in the 21st century to accept that was mind blowing and I was so disgusted. I can’t say these type of sentiments make me feel good about frum life.

Odelyah

Thu, Jan 02 2020, 9:11 am

I didn't read through the whole thread; this is a response to OP's original question. There is a beautiful Akeidas Yitzchak where he discusses how the first woman was given two names, Isha and Chava, and the significance of that. Rather than paraphrase I will paste a translation I found online (from R. Munk) below:

Akeidat Yitzchak 9:44
(44) 8) Originally, Adam had called Eve " ishah ", emphasizing her parity with man, I.e. ish . After the episode with the tree of knowledge, he called her chavah, emphasizing the female element within her, and the fact that she was the mother of all subsequent human beings. Between these two names, the two functions of woman are defined. On the one hand, as the eyshet chayil, woman of valour, she possesses all the ingredients that can raise her to the status of prophetess; on the other hand her function is to become a mother. A woman who fails to give birth, just like a man who is sterile, has not forfeited her major function in life, as is proven from Isaiah 56,3-5, "Let not the barren proclaim I am but a dried out tree." We hold the view that man's major function is the performance of good deeds, something quite independent of procreation. If Jacob had been angry at Rachel for demanding children, else her life would not be worth living, (Genesis 30,1-2) it was precisely for this reason.

saw50st8

Thu, Jan 02 2020, 10:13 am

Kinor Dovid wrote:

I believe it’s idiotic husbands and society that created the resentment women feel in their glamorous roles of being ezer knegdos. (Sometimes ezer- like supporting learning and even working, sometimes knegdo by putting foot down and saying “no. I’m not comfortable with this”.) women today want to be independent because the men in their lives failed them. I don’t blame them.
But I do think that in a perfect world, when moshiach comes we won’t have these issues.
And what I meant when I said that women can’t do everything, I don’t mean that they can’t be good doctors or lawyers, they can. But you can’t compare the quality of the HOME. Some kids are growing up like half or three quarters orphans today . Dad isn’t home. Mom also isn’t home. Thank goodness we have Maria or Chelly or Michelle, they’re just wonderful.
I’m not blaming. Just explaining how I reached my opinions.

Edited to fix a few typos..

Or you can find a balance where both parents are involved.

My husband takes care of our kids in the morning and I go to work early. I get home in the afternoon to take care of the kids.

Kinor Dovid wrote:

And btw women having to rush to Bais din to testify can be horrible, and we can’t know how often it can come up and when, that a woman has to drop everything and rush to testify in Bais din.
Even today I see it’s SO much easier for men to travel than for women. DH can fly to visit his grandma no problem faster than I’d decide to attend a niece’s wedding in the same location. Women are very tied down to very vulnerable little people who are depending on them for their LIFE. Literally.
They can’t just hit and run One two three and off they go. That alone can become pikuach nefesh for their little charges.
So maybe it’s to protect them. Maybe it’s to protect their children.
For sure it’s for everyone’s best interest.
Bec the Torah is just and fair, to everyone, and perfect.
If I knew I can testify, id feel compelled to. Even if it’s hard, even if I’m scared of the other party, even if even if.. personally I feel this is to protect women, out of love and value for them and their roles, but I don’t know all the reasons for everything. I just know G-d is all-good, and just and fair, always, even if we sometimes only understand things much later or in the world to come.

It is much easier for me to travel than for my husband to travel. You are just playing into gender stereotypes to justify the reasoning.