If your parents/in laws paid down payment on house...

amother

Navy

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 2:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I wouldn't manage without basement rental and wouldn't have where to take any funds for repairs, which is part of the reason I'm so hesitant.

OK, so how much house CAN you afford reasonably? Once you have that, you'll know where and what you can look for. Some compromises will likely be necessary.

(We are choosing to rent, because where we are is not bad, and if we are not moving to somewhere better, it isn't worthwhile for us. The actual mortgage would be somewhat lower than our rent, but maintenance would likely destroy that benefit.)

Incidentally, my BIL who is very on top of maintenance estimates that you spend 1% of the purchase price of a house annually on repairs and maintenance. I imagine that, like a car, at the most you can postpone this a few years by buying brand new.

Where we live, a "new" house is 60 years old. I really didn't want a 100+ year old house.

amother

Oak

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 2:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I wouldn't manage without basement rental and wouldn't have where to take any funds for repairs, which is part of the reason I'm so hesitant.

WADR, I think that you and your husband need to sit down with someone who can go through these numbers with you -- I'm not sure if that's an accountant or someone else.

I'm not that person. IMNSHO, you can't afford this house if you wouldn't be able to pay the mortgage if you missed a few months of rental income, and don't have money for even the most rudimentary repairs. But I'm no expert. I think its worth it to find someone who is.

amother

Beige

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 6:49 pm

The people in whispering pines are the nicest neighbors a person can have. That's worth a TON.

#BestBubby

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 10:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No, it's not the only reason, although his negativity did put a huge damper on me. I was never crazy over it. It's an old townhouse with no property and costing a lot of money, plus would need at least 30k in renovations to make it look nice. I don't feel it's worth so much money, yet that's the going price now and not going to get anything better. It's just painful for me, I would love a new fresh house but can't afford one in the area I want and even in the areas I don't want, it's still very expensive. I feel I deserve better.

Nobody "deserves" a fancy new house. Or even an old house. Count your blessings.

nicole81

Wed, Sep 25 2019, 11:20 pm

Do not buy a house if you cannot set aside a couple of thousand a year for repairs.

Do not buy a house unless you can afford the mortgage without rental income at least one month a year.

Do consider that utilities will increase with a house.

Do consider future tuition payments when calculating the amount of house you can afford.

Do consider that ending up house poor, and possibly foreclosed upon, can be much harder than renting.

Do realize that working hard doesn't entitle anyone to anything material.

Also, what does your father think you should do? If he thinks this is a bad deal, is he willing to offer more money? Or to put it into high yield savings or a mutual fund to earn money while you're house hunting? I'm curious as to his suggestions.

For some perspective, in the past 5 years I've had to purchase all new appliances, a new hot water heater, a new boiler, and probably $2000 on various service calls and small jobs from plumbers and sewage professionals. Even new garbage and recycling cans cost $250, which is substantial if you're living paycheck to paycheck. I now need a new roof, due to a leak have to lay new floors, plus we have to fix a structural issue that recently arose in our 99 year old home. These are just the basics. I'd love a gut job on the bathroom and kitchen, but I can dream!

I get that you think it's unfair (it's totally not unfair, it just sucks to work hard and not have much to show for it materialistically), but how are you going to manage all of these issues that come up?

If your father is so good with money, perhaps you should lay everything out and ask for his advice as to how much house payment you can responsibly afford. And if not him, please speak to someone other than a real estate agent or mortgage broker who benefit from your purchase.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:18 am

I don't think you are ready to buy a house. You are not happy with your options. You should be so excited and thankful. Tatti is giving you money, yet it is not enough to get what you deserve. A 20 year old house is too old and needs to be redone. A different neighborhood is not an option. Stay where you are for now. Earn the money yourself and see how hard it is to earn and how far it goes. Mature a little. Gain some perspective. Understand the sacrifice and compromise and all those things. At this time, based on your writing, I am not sure that you would love a brand new construction with 6 large bedrooms and designer kitchen in the heart of town. The fridge won't be to your liking, the tree in the backyard will be in a bad location, the neighbor will be too friendly. Don't worry, with time it will work out.

kollel wife

Thu, Sep 26 2019, 11:03 am

I was thinking about you last night. We bought our house about 24 years ago within the radius of BMG. Most houses that were available were in the 14th street area. We're a bit closer than that. There were maybe townhouses in the Squankum Lawrence area or maybe East 9th Street, but mostly older houses were the norm, from what I remember. The construction hadn't blossomed yet.

My house is older, but not in bad condition. It would be very, very hard for me to buy something older when there are new, fresh clean, kitchens, bathrooms, floors etc in the new townhouses. Not fancy, but fresh, new. Just as a man has considerations where he can learn, daven, feel a part of things, a ladies feelings in her home, kitchen, etc are also VERY important. Being 'moser nefesh' for your husband to daven where he wants, may backfire as it will feel very hard for you to not be resentful.

I can relate very well to your situation. I hope to somehow one day save money to upgrade my bathrooms - just so they'll feel cleaner and fresher, and they are not awful. But it bothers me.

I think it's worthwhile for you to look for newer construction further out, but with people your type. Let your husband check out some of the shuls - he may find what he likes.

Feel free to pm me if you want.

amother

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:26 pm

I'm following up now in this saga but very hesitant bec of the sensitivity of the situation and fear of being exposed. I need all on here to respect my privacy and not discuss outside this forum.
So basically I was feeling so guilty over YT that I couldn't bring myself to say yes to this house. I kept telling my husband over and over again that I'll do it for him but he didn't want to say yes before I fully agreed.
I davened so hard over RH and YK that we should find the right house that should satisfy everyone's needs and everyone should just be happy.
Right after Sukkos, I decided to get involved and take the initiative and called up the real estate agent again. He told me about a diff house in the area that was going on the market the next day, listed for cheaper price than the original house and with more desirable traits to it, which would mean a lot for us. I couldn't believe our fortune! I was ready to say yes on the spot without even seeing it! Of course, I called my father and shared this with him and he sounded so happy and excited. I checked out the pictures and info on Zillow and everything looked great.
So we were the first ones to look at the house and the agent made it clear that he was getting lots of calls about the house and we need to act fast. We were ready to commit on the spot but of course needed my parents' consent. We arranged for my parents to come see and they insisted we come along again so we did. They seemed very satisfied and told us to deal with the agent from now on. This was Erev Shabbos.
We arranged for the contractor to check out the house for us and he went first thing Sunday morning and told us to grab it and that we don't even need an inspection bec we're anyways going to fix things up. So again we were ready to commit. But when called father, he said, send in an inspector just to make sure. When I told him it costs $420, he said that's a small price to pay for proper inspection. (this money is coming out of my meager pocket)
So to make him happy, we arranged for inspection. When we told my father we took care of inspection, he wanted to see report. The inspector was having computer issues and couldn't send over right away. In meantime we were under pressure from the agent bec another person was ready to sign. So we cornered my father and he started screaming against everyone involved, the seller, the agent, the contractor, calling everyone liars and cheaters and stealers, ranting how they're stealing money from poor people etc etc etc.
Of course, I had to stay quiet and patient and respectful and not answer back, after all look what he's doing for us, he's being so generous. (mind you, I didn't see a penny yet but heard about this offer dozens of times.)
My father wanted to know what's the bottom line amount we can get for the house. (mind you, it listed as lower to begin with.) So we tried explaining to agent that my parents feel the house is overpriced as will need lots of repairs etc. He right away got on the case and told us the lowest price the seller will do if we promise to send in deposit and contract within a few days later.
When we got back to father with price, he said, first I need to see inspection report.
Mind you, a few days before, I called the inspector and sat on the phone with him for quite some time taking detailed notes and then typed it up and sent it to contractor and waited an entire day for him to send us a quote.
But that wasn't enough, my father wanted official typed report. He said he's just as smart as contractor and wants to really make sure it won't cost more than what he's saying. Mind you, this is a top contractor and also a family friend and we fully trust him. Also, any money for repairs is coming out of our pockets, part of the mortgage, not from my father's.
I realized at that point that we're going around in circles and felt so used and mistreated and given the runaround. But I played along and asked the inspector to please hurry up his report. He finally sent it to us a few days later and I right away forwarded it to my father.
My father's response: Forward it to the contractor to get official quote. This was yesterday morning and we still didn't get official quote from contractor. He's busy and says it's not emergency.
Then mother called me Sunday and launched into whole speech again about how they're giving us this money and want to make sure gets invested properly and she went thru everything again like how much will it cost you per month and how can you know you will manage it. This is after we've been in touch endlessly with mortgage broker.
So now we're holding by here. The contract and deposit were officially supposed to be in yesterday, with extension for today. There's another buyer who's interested and will sign for higher amount.
I already gave up on this house and don't even care anymore. I feel terrible for my husband for being taken on the runaround like this. He doesn't deserve this. We would've signed on the house on the spot and instead spent so much time and effort and money in doing things my parents' way.
We did everything we can- approved for mortgage, in touch with agents, looked at house, hired contractor, hired inspector and still nothing. In meantime, I don't have money to pay for the inspection and asked him to wait a few days before depositing.
Yet, I still keep hearing how I'm getting all that money. I feel so used and mistreated and don't see how this will ever end.
I wouldn't have minded had my parents told me to begin with that they don't like this house or any townhouse. But to show approval and then take me for the runaround and make me put up with all their anxiety and I don't know what else?
Mind you, I don't come on to them or rely on them for anything ever and married a long time BH and been thru quite some challenges completely without them. This is the first time they're ever offering something substantial bec it was given to them and they decided to share with their children (my siblings are also getting, not just me). Yet the guilt and pressure and yelling that I got so far without getting anywhere or seeing a penny, is so difficult!
Thanks for reading and listening and any support or advice is welcome. Please no criticism of how I'm handling this bec I'm going against my entire being to be respectful and calm throughout plus be strong for my husband, while I'm the one putting up with all this, after working full time and exhausted while expceting BH.

Sebastian

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:44 pm

OP that's is really hard what s going on with your parents but that how things go. You pay you say.

I hope you end up in the best home for you and everything works out well.

SixOfWands

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:52 pm

(1) Never purchase a house or any other real estate without a full inspection. It is the only way to have any reasonably certainty that you're not buying a money pit. You can't glance at a house and know that the furnace isn't on its last legs, or that there's no termite damage.

(2) See (1).

(3) Don't trust any contractor who tells you that an inspection is not necessary.

(4) Always know the cost of necessary repairs or renovations, as well as who is responsible for them (owner or purchaser).

(5) There's no one waiting in the wings with more money, ready to sign if you don't. Because if there were, they would be signing, not you. Sellers take the highest offer.

ETA, if you don't have the $500 or so for the inspection, how would you expect to have $20,000 if it turned out that the sewer line needed replacing, and you didn't have an inspection.

Sebastian

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:57 pm

Six it sounds like she s upset her parents offered a gift and now are berating her about the house etc.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 4:09 pm

I don’t understand why you would have called in an inspector and a contractor before you entered into contract. The way that people I know buy their houses, and the way that I bought my house, was we gave $1000 for earnest deposit and we signed a contract on the house. This was once the buyer accepted our bid. At that point, the contract was ratified upon but was contingent upon the inspection. From my understanding after going through homebuyers counseling for first time homeowners (this is a requirement in my state for all first time homeowners), this is the way to go about a contract. If the home does not pass inspection, or if the owner does not want to make the repairs that the inspector recommends, you can back out of your contract and you lose your thousand dollar earnest money.

Bringing in a contractor and an inspector before putting down a small deposit for earnest money and signing the contract seems quite backwards. Signing would lock you in as the only potential buyer and you would not have to risk losing the house to other bids until you end the contract. All thats at risk is the earnest money.

You seem to be putting the cart before the horse in your house hunt. Maybe you should take some pre-purchase counseling as well?.

Last edited by watergirl on Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Natural

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 4:23 pm

Tell your father you're ok with no repairs being done, and you’re ok with taking and living in the house as is. (Even if this isn’t strictly true - tell it to him anyways!) then sign that contract!! The whole deal shouldn’t be contingent on one specific contractors estimate on the inspectors report. You can always find a cheap handyman somewhere to take care of things and contract out yourself, etc.
start talking to your father about transferring the money. Let him feel like it’s really happening and your moving onto the next step.

iluvy

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 5:55 pm

Just to reiterate what watergirl says - you sign the contract that says you agree to buy the house if it passes inspection. Then you bring in the inspector. If the house is no good you get your escrow back.

SixOfWands

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 6:00 pm

iluvy wrote:

Right. With apologies, I missed that.

newmother

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 6:10 pm

watergirl wrote:

I don’t understand why you would have called in an inspector and a contractor before you entered into contract. The way that people I know by their houses, and the way that I bought my house, was we gave $1000 for earnest deposit and we signed a contract on the house. This was once the buyer accepted our bid. At that point, the contract was ratified upon but was contingent upon the inspection. From my understanding after going through homebuyers counseling for first time homeowners (this is a requirement in my state for all first time homeowners), this is the way to go about a contract. If the home does not pass inspection, or if the owner does not want to make the repairs that the inspector recommends, you can back out of your contract and you lose your thousand dollar earnest money.

Bringing in a contractor and an inspector before putting down a small deposit for earnest money and signing the contract seems quite backwards. Signing would lock you in as the only potential buyer and you would not have to risk losing the house two other bids until you end the contract. All thats at risk is the earnest money.

You seem to be putting the cart before the horse in your house hunt. Maybe you should take some pre-purchase counseling as well?.

Problem is that she doesn't sound like she has the 1000 to put down as a deposit.
Buying a house costs a lot of money, inspections, closing fees, repairs that can't wait... if you don't have a few thousand saved up for these expenses then you might not be ready to buy a house.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 6:44 pm

newmother wrote:

I dont know... she says they are planning on paying for the contractor and the needed repairs with their own money, not her father’s. Maybe they have the funds elsewhere?

OP, the contractor cant give you an opinion on the house. He is nogeah b’davar. He wants you to buy the house so he can make money off of you. A contractor and an inspector look for different things on a house. The inspector looks far deeper than what the contractor would look at. If the contractor is telling you you don’t need an inspector, who is going to check out the furnace? The hot water heater? Who is going to climb up on the roof? Who is going to check for mold and termites? These are all things that I’m sure you were not planning on the contractor fixing for you, that would add another 20 grand at least! And I’m also very confused about the inspector that you hired. How much did you pay him? It’s very strange that it took him so long to give you his report and that he had computer issues… he could and should have been able to log into a different device and send it to you. Ita 2019. That sounds a little bit too “heimish” to me. I am really not understanding why you are so intent on buying a house and then hiring a contractor. Thats quite a big bite for a first time homeowner to take. You should be buying something livable and over time making it your own, if thats all you can afford. But we’ve all already been through that on this thread. You want new bathrooms, kitchen. etc.

If this house needs so many repairs that a contractor is needed, the inspector should have seen that and called a big fat red light on the house. If these repairs you say it needs are actually improvements... thats another story and can and should wait.

Also, you said you feel used. How so? Who took advantage of you (other than maybe the contractor).

Last edited by watergirl on Tue, Nov 12 2019, 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

SixOfWands

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 7:04 pm

watergirl wrote:

I dont know... she says they are planning on paying for the contractor and the needed repairs with their own money, not her father’s. Maybe they have the funds elsewhere?

She said that the renovation costs will be included in the mortgage.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:09 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

She said that the renovation costs will be included in the mortgage.

Gotcha, I missed that part. I’m still curious if they’re doing renovations or repairs. Not the same thing. And I stand by what I said, if the repairs are so serious that they need a contractor to do them, this house for sure needs far more than the contractor led them to believe.

amother

Red

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So now we're holding by here. The contract and deposit were officially supposed to be in yesterday, with extension for today. There's another buyer who's interested and will sign for higher amount.

Am I the only one who noticed this line and found it quite surprising? The reason OP is feeling all this stress is because of the intense pressure and deadlines the agent is putting on her. And his justification for this is that if she doesn't commit, someone else is willing to pay more.

Do you really believe that the seller and the agent are doing you a chesed and are willing to take less from you, just because you saw it a few hours before someone else? If the other buyer truly exists and is as serious about it as claimed and is financially able to pay the higher price, they wouldn't be giving it to you. I'm not getting into how to naviate the broader family mess, just suggesting that all the stress OP is going through is highly suspect.