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Greta Thunberg; wunderkind or badly misled?
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Raisin




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 12:09 pm
ora_43 wrote:
How would that even work?

If, say, an oil conglomerate paid a bunch of ad execs to convince gullible people that climate change isn't real - I can see where the profit is in that. People doubting climate change -> less support for laws limiting pollution -> oil conglomerate saves money.

Where's the profit the other way around? You keep saying that scientists profit by saying climate change is real - but how? Who's paying, and why? Democrats who want to destroy America? But where's the profit in destroying America, where's the money coming from?

Come on, this is Conspiracy Theory 101.


Wind farm owners, makers of electric cars (potentially, depending where the elctricity comes from) all could profit from making up false climate change theories.

ahh the whole climate change conspiracy was made up by Elon Musk! And makers of paperstraws and compostible plates.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 12:13 pm
The solar energy industry, scientists dependent on government grants, traders in carbon credits...
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 12:16 pm
Amazing. Exactly the same discussion is going on right now on FB among my friends (Ukrainian, Russian, Israeli, Canadian, and American). And those who are very into the idea of man-made climate change are saying, “how come it’s not ok to be an anti-vaxer or an HIV dissident, but it’s ok to be a climate change denier?” And my reply is, “1. Come on imamother, you’ll see plenty of anti-vaxers! and 2. What are HIV dissidents?” Never even heard of that, but apparently it’s a thing.

So it’s very culture-specific — what expert consensus we trust, what we doubt, what we google, or don’t. And it’s also individual — what provokes our skepticism and what “seems legit.” We don’t take an entire physics course every time we fly. We do our own research and get second opinions about medical stuff. And everything in between.
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chanatron1000




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 3:49 pm
gamanit wrote:
Yes!! And street signs get melted down as part of regular recycling instead of being refinished and repainted (far less energy needed for that)

And also, bridges and highways somehow seem to need to be renamed and have their signs changed frequently.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:03 pm
ora_43 wrote:
How would that even work?

If, say, an oil conglomerate paid a bunch of ad execs to convince gullible people that climate change isn't real - I can see where the profit is in that. People doubting climate change -> less support for laws limiting pollution -> oil conglomerate saves money.

Where's the profit the other way around? You keep saying that scientists profit by saying climate change is real - but how? Who's paying, and why? Democrats who want to destroy America? But where's the profit in destroying America, where's the money coming from?

Come on, this is Conspiracy Theory 101.


GOVERNMENT Profits - because using climate change as an excuse to CONFISCATE EVERYTHING - not more private property-live in a tiny apartment (cage), electricity rationed (no A/C for peasants), No private cars for peasants - use the train or bike.
Massive Taxes "to fight climate change" - with most $$$ going into the pockets of government officials.

It is the Democrats that are pushing for this power-grab by falsely claiming we're all going to DIE!!! if we don't agree to turn over all our money and rights to Government.

Scientists are PAID by GOVERNMENT! Any scientist who doesn't promote Man-Made Climate Change will not get any government grants.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:09 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Where does this end? I bet some people would call us gay marriage deniers too. As I said elsewhere, I don't outsource my morality and I'm afraid of that happening.


This is more about facts than interpretations. “Vaccines work and are safe” isn’t a moral position; it’s a factual one.

A “gay marriage denier” would be someone who insisted they weren’t actually taking place, not someone opposed to them.

This entire thread is about whether man-made climate change is actually the threat that it is presented to be.

None of these examples have anything to do with frumkeit.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:16 pm
sequoia wrote:
This is more about facts than interpretations. “Vaccines work and are safe” isn’t a moral position; it’s a factual one.

A “gay marriage denier” would be someone who insisted they weren’t actually taking place, not someone opposed to them.

This entire thread is about whether man-made climate change is actually the threat that it is presented to be.

None of these examples have anything to do with frumkeit.


Ooh, you're fast. I thought I deleted the post because it didn't work logically. But I do think there's something to it.
But you're right, that shouldn't become the focus of this thread. If someone can elucidate it more clearly - I don't have time to really work it out right now - feel free to spin off.
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r1




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:29 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
No, I don't believe that PEOPLE are causing climate change.

Climate Change is a HOAX so governments can ENSLAVE the people - taking away all rights, private property and money, with the threat that if do not submit the earth will end. Scientists are PAID by government to scare the people.

In the 1970s, Scientists threatened if we don't give up all our money/rights to government - we will all die from an ICE AGE.

Then Scientists threatened if we don't give up all our money/rights to government - we will all die from ACID RAIN.

Then Scientists threatened if we don't give up all our money/rights to government - we will all die from OZONE HOLE.

Then Scientists threatened if we don't give up all our money/rights to government - we will all die from GLOBAL WARMING.

Then Scientists changed the name from GLOBAL WARMING to CLIMATE CHANGE. Why?
Because the earth STOPPED warming, and we had record COLD temperatures.

Not ALL Scientists believe this hoax. Every prediction the Government Paid Scientists have made have been PROVEN WRONG. Manhattan is not under water. Obama just bought a $15 Million BEACH House (Obama doesn't believe the global warming hoax).

Majority of ADULTS do not believe this hoax. We've heard this before. That's why
Government with their Government Schools are scaring the children. The kids are not aware of the HISTORY of government scare-mongering, so the kids are falling for it.

It's CHILD ABUSE.


Are you for real?

Sorry. I’m not into the global warming hype.
But this is much lol. Conspiracy level koo koo.

I do not have time/ energy to be a full blown environmentalist. I try to live the way I think hashem intended it- being mindful of my bal tashchis (capsule wardrobes, recycling, likiting disposables) but not vegetarian etc because the Torah clearly describes the meat of animals as our food etc.
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shyshira




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:46 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
GOVERNMENT Profits - because using climate change as an excuse to CONFISCATE EVERYTHING - not more private property-live in a tiny apartment (cage), electricity rationed (no A/C for peasants), No private cars for peasants - use the train or bike.
Massive Taxes "to fight climate change" - with most $$$ going into the pockets of government officials.

It is the Democrats that are pushing for this power-grab by falsely claiming we're all going to DIE!!! if we don't agree to turn over all our money and rights to Government.

Scientists are PAID by GOVERNMENT! Any scientist who doesn't promote Man-Made Climate Change will not get any government grants.


The solution is clearly to just get rid of GOVERNMENT!
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 8:16 pm
shyshira wrote:
The solution is clearly to just get rid of GOVERNMENT!


I think we would get very bored without Nancy and The Donald as well as rich uncle Bernie.
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1untamedgirl




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 8:31 pm
princessleah wrote:
My father is a very frum man, he has smicha from Rav Soloveichik and lives a life of Torah and Mitzvot.
He also has a PhD in a climate-related science.
He was a typical Reagan republican, fiscally and socially conservative, and voted republican in every election. Until 2008 when he couldn’t bear the science denial of the republicans anymore and switched, because he was so concerned about the planet.

Don’t kid yourselves. The Democrats are not trying to take control of the country. The reason the republicans deny climate science is because they want to continue to enrich themselves and their buddies in the fossil fuel industry. There’s no reason to bring back coal!

I have a question for your father, please ask him the following: can Hashem still take care of His world and still send Mashiach even if we do nothing about climate change and just let nature take its course? Or will Hashem destroy the world and not send Mashiach unless we do something about climate change? Is our survival contingent on doing something about climate change? Why or why not? TIA
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 8:36 pm
shyshira wrote:
The solution is clearly to just get rid of GOVERNMENT!


Government was invented to:

Protect nation from being conquered by foreign country that would kill all the men and enslave the women and children.

Prevent crime.

Judicial system to settle disputes without violence.

I am not an anarchist. The Mishneh says if not for fear of government, man would swallow each other alive (extreme violence).

BUT, I know that government officials do not seek to be Public SERVANTS but our MASTERS. Government will always grab us much Money and Power from us as they can get away with. Best way to do so is to invent some CRISIS - like the Man-Made Climate Change Crisis.

But I have been hearing these doomsday predictions for 40 years - all FALSE, all WRONG. I have read many articles against climate change and am convinced it is a
HOAX to grab all the money and rights away from We the People.

Nope.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:04 pm
When Moshiach comes, the Levyoson (giant 🐟) is supposed to surface so that we can feast on him but what if he is busy at the bottom of the ocean ingesting discarded plastic, chas v'sholem? I sure hope that he is smarter than most other fish.
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shyshira




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:14 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Government was invented to:

Protect nation from being conquered by foreign country that would kill all the men and enslave the women and children.

Prevent crime.

Judicial system to settle disputes without violence.

I am not an anarchist. The Mishneh says if not for fear of government, man would swallow each other alive (extreme violence).

BUT, I know that government officials do not seek to be Public SERVANTS but our MASTERS. Government will always grab us much Money and Power from us as they can get away with. Best way to do so is to invent some CRISIS - like the Man-Made Climate Change Crisis.

But I have been hearing these doomsday predictions for 40 years - all FALSE, all WRONG. I have read many articles against climate change and am convinced it is a
HOAX to grab all the money and rights away from We the People.

Nope.


Is this just an American thing?
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1untamedgirl




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:17 pm
southernbubby wrote:
When Moshiach comes, the Levyoson (giant 🐟) is supposed to surface so that we can feast on him but what if he is busy at the bottom of the ocean ingesting discarded plastic, chas v'sholem? I sure hope that he is smarter than most other fish.

I thought everything will be perfect when Moshiach comes so if that is the case then we dont need to worry about what the Levyason is or isnt eating until then.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:24 pm
1untamedgirl wrote:
I thought everything will be perfect when Moshiach comes so if that is the case then we dont need to worry about what the Levyason is or isnt eating until then.


It is believed that Moshiach will affect the world in stages but you are probably right.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:27 pm
shyshira wrote:
Is this just an American thing?


ALL Governments, all over the world, will gain money and power if they can convince
the people that they are all going to DIE!!! if they don't give their government all
their money and rights.
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shyshira




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:30 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
ALL Governments, all over the world, will gain money and power if they can convince
the people that they are all going to DIE!!! if they don't give their government all
their money and rights.


We're all going to DIE. I don't need the government to tell me this.

But to be clear - the HOAX is has been orchestrated by whom?
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Ihatepotatoes




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 11:21 pm
tryinghard wrote:
If her anxiety relating to climate change was bad enough to trigger selective mutism, why on earth are her parents encouraging this? The child needs CBT (or DBT), not a podium at the UN.

If a child developed selective mutism as a result of anxiety related to cancer, would you think the parents should be helping the child REDUCE the anxiety? Or encourage it by having her get up and speak in front of the WHO about the dangers and incident rates of cancer?


As someone else put it, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet here, the way this poor girl has been treated is as if someone with OCD and Aspergers had a fixation with washing their hands, and instead of treating them we gave them soap pads and brillo and made them sit through hours of lectures on how many germs there are in your sink.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Sep 27 2019, 1:28 am
Ihatepotatoes wrote:
As someone else put it, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet here, the way this poor girl has been treated is as if someone with OCD and Aspergers had a fixation with washing their hands, and instead of treating them we gave them soap pads and brillo and made them sit through hours of lectures on how many germs there are in your sink.


It was mentioned by some posters that someone feeds her anxiety. She apparently has an unhealthy fixation with the world coming to an end from climate change.
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