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What is socialism?
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Poll

Do you consider yourself for or against socialism?
For
 16%  [ 8 ]
Against
 62%  [ 30 ]
Neither/It depends on the context
 20%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 48


Fox




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 5:24 pm
What is often referred to as "socialized medicine" is not actually socialism in action; it would be more accurate to call it "goverment-paid medicine."

Though there are a number of unintended consequences to government-paid healthcare, the one that is most often overlooked on Imamother is the fact that, like HMOs of the past, government-paid healthcare generally works great when you're relatively young, healthy, and/or have conditions that are common enough to have recognized protocols and therapies.

When you get older, though, or if you have a condition that is not common, the picture may be much different. I've met many, many families whose children have craniofacial syndromes, and their governments do not pay for reconstructive plastic surgery. When there are only 500 people in the world with a particular condition, it's not on the government's list of approved procedures.

Of course, there are various appeal processes, but these are frequently unsuccessful.

Personally, I think we might be better served by government-paid "major medical" rather than trying to get someone else to pay for every vaccination and antibiotic. But there are problems with that, too. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:10 pm
BadTichelDay wrote:
I'd like to add this to my above post:

Capitalism = my property and all the money I make are mine and I can do with them as I please as long as it's not against the law.

Socialism = my property and all the money I make belong to the state. The state decides what to do with them. It also determines if, where and how I go to work and how much I get paid.

Judaism = my property and all the money I make are Hashem's. I myself am property of Hashem.
The Land of Israel is the property of Hashem. The rest of the planet as well.
Every year on Rosh HaShana Hashem determines my income and losses for the year to come.
He has set down halachot which obligate us to share with the poor, the widow and the orphan and the stranger, take tithes if we live in a state that's governed by halacha, contribute to the Beit HaMikdash in such a state, pay taxes which the king can determine, do public work if the king requires so, not withhold the wages of a day laborer overnight, leave the corners of the field and keep other agricultural laws and so on. After I have fulfilled all my halachic obligations, I may use what is left of my money and property to live on and enhance my service to Hashem.


I would say Judaism is still mostly a capitalist system with a social safety net. There are rich people and poor people - no declaration that we all must be "equal". There is PRIVATE business and PRIVATE Property.
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hotzenplotz




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:15 pm
thelioness wrote:
Canada and Israel. That is what I think of with the word socialism.

We claim to be a democracy, but are we really? Maybe Daddy Warbucks was more correct when he said usa is capitalist.


Israel is a socialist country but the govt economic policies have underhandedly moved towards a more capitalist system.
Ever since, more and more frum (and non-frum) people have made it in business and other sectors.
For the betterment of the country a system cannot be too rigid. It has to borrow some ideas from different kinds of govt...
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hotzenplotz




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:16 pm
Fox: I love you. Can we meet?
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chanatron1000




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 7:26 pm
In a way, medicine in the US could benefit from being both more socialist and more capitalist. Now it's neither, because the information imbalances, drug importation restrictions, and the complexities of the insurance system make it very different from a capitalist market.
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andrea levy




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Sep 26 2019, 9:15 pm
thelioness wrote:
Canada and Israel. That is what I think of with the word socialism.

We claim to be a democracy, but are we really? Maybe Daddy Warbucks was more correct when he said usa is capitalist.


This is hilarious. Kibbutzim are socialist. Israel and Canada are both capitalistic.

Take a drive down the bridle path in Toronto and ask yourself why everyone doesn’t live there. Because we aren’t all rich enough to own 50 million dollar homes. Why do we have slums? Minimum wages? Because capitalism.

Yes, we have socialized medical care and really good maternity leave. But we PAY for them via our taxes.

Jeesh.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Sep 27 2019, 12:25 am
Democrats DELIBERATELY drive up the cost of health care - to force people to ask for socialised medicine. Obamacare made insurance skyrocket. Not letting insurance be sold across state lines, refusing to do tort reforms (malpractice). Democrats WANT to destroy PRIVATE insurance so they make regulations to make private insurance unaffordable.

How to lower Health Care Costs with CAPITALISM:

1. Allow Insurance to be sold across state lines. Government stops competition, driving up rates.

2. Catastrophic (hospital) insurance only. People have to budget for health-care like you budget for rent and food. We don't have "food insurance" or food would cost 10 x more!

3. Tax Free Health Care Accounts to save up for large deductibles with PRE TAX dollars.

4. Tort Reform. Pay for medical bills and loss of income. Cap on "pain and suffering".
No "punitive" awards. Would drastically reduce costs!

5. Mandate doctors and hospital post fees online so people can shop for best price.

6. End laws banning opening new hospitals (yes, they exist!)

7. Pay off Medical School for doctors who provide health care for poor at moderate salary.

8. Teach Americans Nutrition so they can stay healthy.

9. Build wall and Deport illegals so we don't have to pay for health care for illegal!
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BadTichelDay




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Sep 27 2019, 1:57 am
Fox wrote:
What is often referred to as "socialized medicine" is not actually socialism in action; it would be more accurate to call it "goverment-paid medicine."

Though there are a number of unintended consequences to government-paid healthcare, the one that is most often overlooked on Imamother is the fact that, like HMOs of the past, government-paid healthcare generally works great when you're relatively young, healthy, and/or have conditions that are common enough to have recognized protocols and therapies.

When you get older, though, or if you have a condition that is not common, the picture may be much different. I've met many, many families whose children have craniofacial syndromes, and their governments do not pay for reconstructive plastic surgery. When there are only 500 people in the world with a particular condition, it's not on the government's list of approved procedures.

Of course, there are various appeal processes, but these are frequently unsuccessful.

Personally, I think we might be better served by government-paid "major medical" rather than trying to get someone else to pay for every vaccination and antibiotic. But there are problems with that, too. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.
I don't want to derail the thread, but I've never understood why people in the US are so opposed to socialized medicine. It's not socialist. But it helps a lot. Personally, I love my Israeli kuppat cholim. In recent years I have had 3 c-sections, a baby that was 5 weeks in NICU, I also had 2 hospitalizations for a week each for other medical conditions, I've got a chronic condition with daily medication. This year I've been 3 or 4 times at my family doctor, also been to a breast surgeon, a cardiologist and twice to a gynecologist. I've had several ultrasounds. Other than small nominal fees I have paid nothing for the things listed. What would someone in the US do with all these issues? I'm really asking. Do people run around with high debts ever after? Ask money from their families? Go bancrupt? What should I have done if I had lived in the US?
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thelioness




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Sep 27 2019, 12:09 pm
andrea levy wrote:
This is hilarious. Kibbutzim are socialist. Israel and Canada are both capitalistic.

Take a drive down the bridle path in Toronto and ask yourself why everyone doesn’t live there. Because we aren’t all rich enough to own 50 million dollar homes. Why do we have slums? Minimum wages? Because capitalism.

Yes, we have socialized medical care and really good maternity leave. But we PAY for them via our taxes.

Jeesh.


Thats the only part of socialism ( the kinds implemented in those countries) I hear debated about getting implemented in the US. But the US capitalism I think might be suffering from oligopolies.
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