Need help with manipulative behavior

behappy2

Sun, Sep 29 2019, 2:32 pm

I need help. Bh so much success with my son. He has challenges emotionally and ADHD among other things. I have inadvertently taught him to be manipulative. I want to know if anyone has a difficult child that they were NOT able to raise using typical discipline methods because things escalated and were able to raise their child to do as they were told and be able to emotionally handle consequences. Thank you so much!

amother

Denim

Sun, Sep 29 2019, 4:18 pm

What do you mean by "manipulative"? Do you mean in some cruel sort of way, or do you mean in the way that a lot of kids have of knowing exactly what to say to get what they want? (Think the little kid who knows how to be extra cute to get out of going to bed or doing his chores when he's supposed to).

Unfortunately, when dealing with a "special" kid, I sometimes feel like we've trained them to know that if they do or say certain things they"ll get rewarded, and then we have to untrain them to expect that :-(

And yes, many kids need to be disciplined in different ways from the standard because they view the world differently than a lot of us do.

Can you give some examples of what you are looking for help with?

behappy2

Sun, Sep 29 2019, 4:44 pm

Thank you for the validation.

Example 1 "I need you to do xyx" child responds "what will I get"

Example 2 I told him I can't do something for him do he threw cookies across the room (not age appropriate)

Example 3 I told him I can't help him with his writing. He told me "so I'm going to throw it in the garbage"

amother

Seafoam

Sun, Sep 29 2019, 5:02 pm

behappy2 wrote:

2 and 3 are related to the nature of the disorder: the impulsivity, the lack of emotional regulation. You haven't taught that; it needs to be worked on.

1 is hard, because while I think it's not unusual for kids in general, I think it's an almost inevitable byproduct of using the types of behavioral systems we need for these kids. We focus on these external motivations so much because they're the only way to shape the behaviors, and they are very effective. But the reward becomes a big deal. It's a big reason behavioral methods like Floortime shy away from rewards of any kind. I have used it, but IME, for certain things you need the rewards.

behappy2

Sun, Sep 29 2019, 5:19 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Thanks for the insight. How do I go about accomplishing these goals?

behappy2

Sun, Sep 29 2019, 5:35 pm

Today I put my foot down about Somme things and the result is that he has less of an ability to handle the next limit. Can't go into details. Feels like his tank just runs out.

amother

Seafoam

Sun, Sep 29 2019, 5:59 pm

Talk to his OT and behaviorist about the emotional regulation. The OT will attack it from the side, about how his body feels. Honestly, I've never had anything but meds really help with intense impulsivity until natural consequences could be truly understood. Same deal with phasing out rewards- start tring to introduce natural consequences as much as possible, even if you need to invent an explanation ("you get a slurpee for doing hw well because you didn't take up my time with tantrums so I have time to take you.")

Speaking of meds, maybe look and see if these behaviors happen at around the same time each day. It could be a crazy house, or getting tired. But I know ds did this when he was coming off his meds each night- major rebound effect. That's a conversation with the doctor.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Oct 01 2019, 12:12 pm

I'm currently learning about Narrative Therapy. A friend of mine who is a child psychologist uses it, and I'm amazed at her results.

Basically, it removes the child from the problem, and makes them two different things. For example, Anger is visiting your house, and taking all your fun away. What ways can we think of to make Anger leave us alone, so we can go back to the game? Can we throw Anger out the window? What about the front door? Can we trap it in a box?

"Playful Approaches to Serious Problems" is the book it's based on, and although I just started it, I am really enjoying it. This is useful even with kids who are engaged in extremely serious behavior or health issues.

Right now I'm reading about elementary school kids and younger. I'll be interested to see if the book carries the therapy model into dealing with teens.