High School Hashkafa, s/o other side of mechitza

mha3484

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:25 am

leah233 wrote:

Becuase of the total failure of the non-kollel crowd to open their schools matching their own haskafa and reality. Becuase of the total unwillingness of that crowd to...

With all the real and perceived faults of the Bais Yaakov system the failure of it's critics to create an alternative is a lot worse and a lot bigger failure. Which is why I think that things would be even worse if they were ones deciding what should (not)be taught.

Chicago has a very solid centrist school but the rebbeim and majority of the morahs are yeshivish. I think in the more modern to centrist crowds anyone who becomes a teacher works in public school for the salary and benefits so the only ones who are left to teach are the more idealistic yeshivish type. So the disparity between the teachers and students is huge. In our co-ed modern orthodox elementary school there are almost no male teachers which I think is a shame for boys. I see my son really thrives from having a rebbe for judaic studies.

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:50 am

ShishKabob wrote:

sorry op, it's a little too little, too late for that. You can't take back the biting tone of your original post with this. That's the problem with posting your (or anyone's) grievances online. That's what my issue is as I mentioned before.
op, I didn't mean to be so harsh. I apologize.
You sound like a smart and good person, just a little frustrated and upset now.

Im not taking back what I said and I dont think my post was biting. I also talk to lots of right wing yeshivish ppl who also don't like what is going on. You even said yourself that you openly disagree with your kids teachers. I take the same approach with my children. I think its important to talk about this because the fallout is painful to watch.

ShishKabob

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There's a famous quote from Reb Chaim Sanzer that goes something like this:
When he was young, he wanted to change the world.
When he saw that he couldn't do that, he wanted to change his town.
When he realized that he couldn't do that either, he decided that he wanted to change his own family.
Alas, he realized that he couldn't control that either, so he decided that he's going to have to change himself. (this is the gist of it)
That's what I tell myself. I'm not a principal, nor a teacher in school. However, I can teach my own children the proper way with Hashems help and like that slowly make the changes within my own family and Beezras Hashem with my childrens families and so on.

amother

Lilac

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:58 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

what do you mean by the "hypocrisy of living my life one way but needing to promote a different way?"
what are you ashamed to be doing?
if youre teaching chumash, I would assume you hold by the values of the torah..so are you saying your real life contradicts torah?
can you explain yourself?
I would love to understand more of what is wrong in this system...

I'm not at all referring to the kollel lifestyle even though I started teaching as a single girl, taught through DH's time in kollel, and then continued even while he was edging out and going to work.

I'm talking about the other stuff. I started out teaching being very idealistic. Once real life set in, I felt like my hashkafos (and no, not the chumash per se) was not compatible with what the school wanted.

seeker

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 12:19 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You know what I mean. Why arent we teaching kids how to deal with emotions, have honest relationships. We are trying to mass produce robots.

My high school had an emotional health/relationships type class at least 15 years ago in addition to topics that come up in different subjects. It may not have been perfect but if that was 15 years ago then I had high hopes that these curricula were further developed by now, especially since public awareness of emotional health has risen dramatically (even just looking at the types of columns, stories, and letters appearing in yeshivish/chareidi media demonstrates this in a huge way, it was much different even ten years ago.)

So yeah I'm sure it's not every school and not going to reach every girl (let's remember that teens mature at very varied rates) but I take posts like this with a large grain of salt. I don't deny there's a problem, I just question the supposed extent of it.

amother

Coffee

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 12:37 pm

2 thoughts that come to mind when reading this thread
1. I went to a typical in town "kollel pushing " bais yaakov. My dad had learned in kollel when I was a kid but at that point he had long gone to work. As a kid he was never around sunday, legal holidays even early mornings and late nights, all his spare time went to trying to get in an extra word of learning. My dad is a very special person. He gave us so much time as teenagers, dealing with all the emotional ups and downs that teenagers have. I never felt he wasnt available for me even though in hindsight I was probably talking to him while he could have been doing a lot "more important" things. Most of my friends had very different fathers than me. A lot of them came from wealthy households and their fathers were busy business men. When we were all in shidduchim it was trendy to marry kollel and my friends with rich dads were all on board. After all it was the in thing to do and their fathers were easily able to afford it so why not? Well guess what? They married guys who were "learning" but the pictures I saw portrayed anything but that. Lavish vacations during the zman, going out to eat every night during shana rishona, moving to israel and living it up etc. So what did the bais yaakov system really teach these girls? I mean im not Gd and im sure these girls husbands were learning but is this what was intended by learning? OTOH, could be they were putting in a few good hours every morning and their fathers were happy so support. So is that terrible? Learning is learning after all and talmud torah kneged kulam...?!
2. I ended up getting married a bit later and DH put in a year of kollel and bh kept a close connection to his rabbeim and yeshivos even thou he left. Maybe that whole "pushing kollel" messed with my head bec I had a dream for DH to learn longer. For a long time ive wanted to stand up in front of hs students and talk about being a mench. Dh is a very very special guy and had amazing sterling middos. He learns every day and never misses a minyan... so kollel didnt happen for me. Is Hashem frowning?
P.s I also don't love that h.s push seminary in israel, its a personal pet peeve of mine that spending 20k for a girl to have a year overseas has become a standard...

amother

Pearl

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 1:02 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

👌🏻
Having gone to an in town bais Yaakov I’m sorry to agree with op, but the schools are out of touch. Not bad , but out of touch. Girls are taught in a very brainwashed, unrealistic way, and after graduation, you need to find yourself. Also, nothing is taught about major Mitzvos girls should understand. Example why women cover their hair. Nada.

amother

Coffee

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 1:20 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

This is going to sound sooo naive but I felt like I had an Aha moment when I realized (on my own) why collar bones and knees are the tznius guidelines. Someone should have spelled out to us in school that men are very attracted to breasts and low cut shirts are revealing etc. And this is the guideline because any lower youd be able to see down the shirt of any big breasted women...

ddmom

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 1:45 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

Not sure if that what you meant but I truly believe that hashkafos come from the home!
Bais yaakov teach the girls an ideal to aspire to (and they do a very good job at it!!!)and parents transmit the message of what is important to them!
It doesn't matter if the father is learning or working, what matter is what they do during their free time, where do they hang out on "vacation", how and when do they use their smart phone...
Bais yaakov play a very important role in educating our girls but our role as parents is just as (if not more) important!!!

amother

Brunette

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 1:51 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

Off topic, but this quote has been ascribed to many people who predate Rav Chaim Sanzer. It's a lovely thought, but not original to him.

amother

Puce

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 2:29 pm

The schools are definitely more pro kollel than they were ten years ago. However, I don’t blame them. They give over the ideal, knowing that the concept will be absorbed but also knowing that a watered down version will be applied. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. they preach that learning is the ultimate so that when your husband wants to go you appreciate that and allow it without holding him back. Not so that you eat only bread and salt.
To quote a very frum, ultra yeshivish teacher I spoke to recently - when you were in high school you were told you need to daven three times a day. What you weren’t told is that if you said modeh ani this morning you’re great as well...
they teach you to daven three times so that you end up saying at least the brachos.

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 2:49 pm

imasinger wrote:

I'm a little confused, OP.

So, what exactly are you saying, and what are you not saying?

Its really hard for me to explain so instead I will tell you a story. When I was in high school I had a teacher that was NOT the norm. She was talking to us I think about kabbalos and anger and said that if we have siblings coming into our room and we get mad that we should put a lock on our door. This smart advice was the anamoly. More typically we would be given a story about someone who never lost his temper and got olam habba. This is one thing that comes to mind. Unbalanced, not grounded is mainstream. Teaching kids how to REALLY navigate their middos, relationships and future is foreign and even borders on heretical.

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 2:51 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

Go speak to Rabbonim, kallah teachers etc.. and you will hear about the shalom bayis issues this causes.