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Religious Zionist rabbonim against plastic disposables
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:49 am
Iymnok wrote:
I spent $300 each on two sets of service for 8 Noritake China. (50pcs) I have used it for over 10 years. How many shabbos meal disposable settings can you buy for that amount? Not 10 years worth.
The little kids use my weekday Corelle.

300 bucks for a 50 piece set? Impressive!
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:51 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
In general, I agree with you. But most rabbis do not. Also, what are the parameters of halacha? That's sticky to define. You could definitely argue that damaging the environment is a halachic issue, certainly no less than the internet or jean skirts.


Please explain why something as benign as this which is just asking if you want toxins in your baby's milk is generating resistance here
But citifield internet asifas are cool and even laudable
Lets forget about the environment and just scream about long sheitls
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itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:00 am
Do you remember when they were considering banning plastic bags in NY and I believe Felder(?) claimed jews can't afford to buy bags - as if you can't buy nondisposable bags!

Embarrassing.


Last edited by itsmeima on Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:01 am
Here's one rav (former rabbi of our shul) who's doing something about the enormous amounts of trash we dispose of here in the US. (Click on "Team" to see who I'm referring to.)

https://www.ubqmaterials.com/
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:05 am
Maybe government issue dishes would solve part of the problem. The government could give basic dishes to needy families in order to break people of their reliance on disposables.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:05 am
watergirl wrote:
I'm going to toot my own horn for a second.

This is the first time in YEARS that I have two sinks. We kept a bin under the sink and put dirty dishes in it while the sink had another bin for the opposite type of dish. A rack at the bottom. Annoying, but possible. Not fun. Not pleasant. But possible. Re; expense - do you understand how cheap real dishes are at Ikea? One year before pesach, I was loading my cart with disposable plates/bowls, etc and added it up - $80. We have very little to spend. I could not stomach spending $80 on something to throw away. So we went to Ikea. Spent the same $80 and now have a set of plates/bowls/salad plates/etc.

No one is MAKING anyone feel a certain way. That is on the person. I can not make anyone feel a certain way.

I do think we dont give ourselves enough credit where its needed. I simply dont have the money to spend on dishes to throw away. I wash my dishes and use them again for the next meal. Its a lot of work, so I switch off washing dishes with my husband - we each take a meal. I do all of my very simple cooking before the YT so I am not in the kitchen the whole time. A sink full of dishes takes 15-20 mins. Not a big deal.

My husband and I make our own choice and of course to each their own. But please, skip the apologetics and rationale. If we each do our part, nothing is pointless.

For me, its not about the environment to be totally honest. Its about my wallet. I simply do not have the money to spend on the disposables.


I tend to agree with you WGirl

However, some people have told me that water and cleaning ladies costs them way more than disposables
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:08 am
itsmeima wrote:
Do you remember when they were considering banning plastic bags in NY and I believe Felder(?) claimed jews can't afford to buy bags - embarrassing!


Plastic bags now cost 10 agurot each in Israeli supermarkets. It's really nothing, but it makes people think twice. Also people can no longer take 10 extra bags just because, like they used to.

Lots of people here have started going to the super with reusable bags.
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itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:11 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
Plastic bags now cost 10 agurot each in Israeli supermarkets. It's really nothing, but it makes people think twice. Also people can no longer take 10 extra bags just because, like they used to.

Lots of people here have started going to the super with reusable bags.


Same here, I use cloth bags (I live in Canada).
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:11 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
I tend to agree with you WGirl

However, some people have told me that water and cleaning ladies costs them way more than disposables

Water... not sure. Cleaning lady... since when is this a given? I dont have a cleaning lady. Like I said, money is tight!
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:14 am
I am very much in favor of cutting down on disposables. We have a duty to take care of the environment. I use some disposables because we only have one sink, but truly a small amount, maybe a bowl and plate a day. (One child is the culprit for almost all disposables used.) The rest of us have learned to rinse out whatever milchig thing we’ve used in the bathroom sink, and to then put it in a bin until one of us (usually me) washes the fleishig dishes and cleans the sink. Even if we used all disposables, we’d still have the pans in which we scrambled eggs, etc., so we’d still have the dishes in the bin/on the counter problem.

I don’t much care about how the counters look; I’d rather know that I’m doing what I can to reduce our carbon footprint.

I’m glad that rabbis are starting to acknowledge that preserving the environment is a serious issue.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:15 am
amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

If disposables use helps a frum family live a happy healthy frum life I support that.
I would imagine this issue can be addressed more effectively from other angles such as creating more biodegradable disposables for one example without vilifying or stigmatizing personal preferences of Jews, Israelis, frum yidden.


There are lots of biodegradable disposables. The problem is that they are very expensive. Nobody I know can afford them on a regular basis.

Plastic disposables in Israel are dirt cheap. They are also made much flimsier than in the states. The cups here are intended for one time use; they probably contain a lot less plastic than the sturdy disposables I saw in the states. People use them ALL the time. EVERYONE practically has a water bar at home, and a stack of plastic cups next to it.

I only lately stopped with the disposable cups. We each take a real cup and use it for the day.
I also instituted a policy that each child is responsible to wash their dish immediately after use, or to put it straight in the dishwasher. My kids are all older, though. (and it still doesn't always work)
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:16 am
watergirl wrote:
Water... not sure. Cleaning lady... since when is this a given? I dont have a cleaning lady. Like I said, money is tight!


IKR? Who has a cleaning lady to wash dishes? Who has a cleaning lady at all?
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SacN




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:34 am
I'm in principle really opposed to plastic. It's wasteful, bad for the environment, expensive and just bad consumerist middos, to buy and toss.

On the other hand, I do not have (or have room/ability for) a dishwasher in my rental apartment. We mostly eat on real dishes. Shabbos, we use China. We have a reusable plastic tablecloth.

But I keep plastic around and we use it for shalosh Seudos once a week. My husband grabs them occasionally for supper during the week if he knows he won't wash dishes and I won't appreciate them being left for me.

I'd rather he wash them every time, but I, with my 45 hour work week +2 hours daily commute, can only wash 1-2 sinks full of dishes per day. He has similar hours, and also has his limit. I spent an hour Rosh Hashanah morning doing dishes. Perhaps I should have davened more?

Frankly, my (high tech) office uses an INSANE amount of disposable dishes. The take out containers, the soda bottles, the paper plates. The alternative though, is for there to be a kitchen with real dishes and cooked food and everything would probably be treif.

Everything is a trade off.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:43 am
watergirl wrote:
Water... not sure. Cleaning lady... since when is this a given? I dont have a cleaning lady. Like I said, money is tight!


It's all about priorities .. Many of my neighbors literally don't have food in their fridge . Meat is only for Yom tov . Chicken is only for Shabbos
Cheddar cheese is a luxury unless you have WIC .
But they all have a cl lady twice a week
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:50 am
Yay. I am very grateful to all these men doing the dishes by us, because I believe they put their soap (?) where their mouth is.
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gamanit




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 12:34 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
How about using all the money they spent on disposables and buying a dishwasher?
Seriously.
There’s so much waste. Taking care of the environment needs to be a priority in our communities. We owe it to the next generations


I would love to have a dishwasher. Can you figure out how to fit it into my apartment? Everything is a tradeoff. By the way- dishwasher appliances aren't perfect for the environment either being as they use energy (more than washing dishes by hand). Having a next generation is also a priority and we don't have unlimited energy.
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 12:36 pm
I use a lot of paper for plates and bowls and I line my baking pans with parchment for easier clean up. As much as it is for the environment, I find eating hot food off plastic plates to be kind of gross. Am I the only one?
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 12:37 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
I tend to agree with you WGirl

However, some people have told me that water and cleaning ladies costs them way more than disposables

Depends on how you wash your dishes (with a running faucet non-stop or soaping all dishes and then rinse it off)
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 12:56 pm
Am I the only person who wouldn't have rubbish space for all those disposables?

I get compostible plates now, (they can go in our compost bin) or those flimsy paper ones. I use real plates mostly (thank you ikea - btw I am not joking when I say Ikeas real plates are hardly more expensive then plastic plates on sale here) but paper plates for dessert when I have a crowd.

The way rubbish is collected can make a difference. We pay per kilo for our rubbish collection so there is an incentive to recycle or compost as much as we can. (recylcling is free, compost is cheaper then reg rubbish)
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 12:58 pm
mha3484 wrote:
I use a lot of paper for plates and bowls and I line my baking pans with parchment for easier clean up. As much as it is for the environment, I find eating hot food off plastic plates to be kind of gross. Am I the only one?


Nope, I'm with you there!

Funny thing: I've never seen paper plates and cups in Israel. I wonder why?
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