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Religious Zionist rabbonim against plastic disposables
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 4:23 pm
Rappel wrote:
Nope, I'm with you there!

Funny thing: I've never seen paper plates and cups in Israel. I wonder why?


Of course there are paper plates, they are just less popular. There are fancy ones for birthdays and parties. I haven't seen regular paper plates.

Same with paper cups.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 4:54 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
300 bucks for a 50 piece set? Impressive!
10 or so years ago at Bed Bath and Beyond, with a coupon.
https://www.bedbathandbeyond.c.....Id=86
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 5:04 pm
I have never found paper plates in Israel. Believe me, I've searched all the party stores, they just don't happen here. I hate plastic so much.

In the US, DD gave a speech about global warming for a press conference. Afterwards, her school had a picnic - you guessed it - served on plastic disposables! Banging head

DD was not amused at the irony.
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amother
Mint


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 6:35 pm
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
How about using all the money they spent on disposables and buying a dishwasher?
Seriously.
There’s so much waste. Taking care of the environment needs to be a priority in our communities. We owe it to the next generations


We actually calculated that we wouldn't even save money by using real dishes - it would just mean a higher water bill.

You get white plastics here in Israel for very cheap.
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 8:15 pm
Modern energy efficient dishwashers use less energy than washing by hand. People use more water than the dishwasher does.

I'm not bothered by this at all, given how many other things rabbis speak up about.

What will change people's habits is 1) making disposables more expensive and 2) changing garbage pickup. A friend of mine in Canada said her city only allows one large trash bag per week regardless of family size. She asked for an exception as she has 4 kids and pets including a baby in diapers. She got an extra 10 bag tags. She's not going to waste her limited trash space with disposables.
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amother
Brunette


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:02 pm
amother [ Mint ] wrote:
We actually calculated that we wouldn't even save money by using real dishes - it would just mean a higher water bill.

You get white plastics here in Israel for very cheap.


Us too. Where we live, water is exorbitant (hundreds of dollars a month). (Detroit). We've actually once figured out that disposable dishes were cheaper.
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:13 pm
a recent article said that trace amounts of plastic byproducts found in some children's urine was due to exposure to sources of plastics such as toys and furniture.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:49 pm
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
Us too. Where we live, water is exorbitant (hundreds of dollars a month). (Detroit). We've actually once figured out that disposable dishes were cheaper.


I spent nearly 3 decades in Detroit but I always had higher water bills in the summer when I watered the grass and filled wading pools. We rarely had water bills in the hundreds in Detroit but the paper goods cost for any party or event was about $2 per person.
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Frumwithallergies




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:56 pm
I am following enthusiastically !
I have been composting for years, from when I lived with my parents and they had a compost bin in their back yard.

Now, my city picks up compost from my doorstep! I use real dishes to host, and add paper plates if I have more than 12 children as guests for chag or shabbos, simply because I'm disorganised. All the paper and corn-based cups are compostable and get picked up by the city. But I rarely use disposables.

My biggest coup is that I convinced my sIL, who lives in the same city, to finally compost!!! She has also stopped using plastic disposables.

Since my SIL is very charismatic and has a wide circle of friends k'ah, I hope that she will spread the word!
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 1:44 am
watergirl wrote:
I'm going to toot my own horn for a second.

This is the first time in YEARS that I have two sinks. We kept a bin under the sink and put dirty dishes in it while the sink had another bin for the opposite type of dish. A rack at the bottom. Annoying, but possible. Not fun. Not pleasant. But possible. Re; expense - do you understand how cheap real dishes are at Ikea? One year before pesach, I was loading my cart with disposable plates/bowls, etc and added it up - $80. We have very little to spend. I could not stomach spending $80 on something to throw away. So we went to Ikea. Spent the same $80 and now have a set of plates/bowls/salad plates/etc.

No one is MAKING anyone feel a certain way. That is on the person. I can not make anyone feel a certain way.

I do think we dont give ourselves enough credit where its needed. I simply dont have the money to spend on dishes to throw away. I wash my dishes and use them again for the next meal. Its a lot of work, so I switch off washing dishes with my husband - we each take a meal. I do all of my very simple cooking before the YT so I am not in the kitchen the whole time. A sink full of dishes takes 15-20 mins. Not a big deal.

My husband and I make our own choice and of course to each their own. But please, skip the apologetics and rationale. If we each do our part, nothing is pointless.

For me, its not about the environment to be totally honest. Its about my wallet. I simply do not have the money to spend on the disposables.


ITA. We just bought 48 sets (big plate, small plate, bowl) of nice, durable dishes from IKEA for $123. Think about it. Just $123. And assuming most people wouldn’t need 48 sets, it’d be even cheaper. It’s just 79 cents a piece, people!
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 1:48 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
I have never found paper plates in Israel. Believe me, I've searched all the party stores, they just don't happen here. I hate plastic so much.

.


Aren't these paper plates? Or am I misunderstanding? They are at all the party stores here.

https://www.peamitstore.co.il/Cat/47

They are more expensive than the plastic.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 1:56 am
Some responses (sorry, too many to quote everyone):

*There's no way your water bill is higher than the cost of plastics unless you leave the water running. The actual amount of water used when you wash your dishes properly is negligible.

*Israel, best as I know, does not have plain paper plates. There are plastic-coated decorative plates but those are no better than plain plastics. There are, however, compostable plastic alternatives, dishes and utensils that look and feel like plastic but are in fact fully compostable. But if you toss them in the trash instead of the compost then using them is pointless.

*That's a bit of an exaggeration that EVERYONE in Israel has a water bar. I don't, nor do my parents, in-laws, any of my siblings...in fact, I only know one person who does. And they use their regular cups and glasses, not the plastic disposable ones.

*Yes, big corporations leave a larger carbon footprint than a family using single-use plastics. But saying you're not going to bother doing whatever little you can do is like saying there's no point in voting. Whether the issue is elections or the environment, EVERY voice, EVERY action, counts.

*Trash limitations and recycling/composting policies are awesome! I'm not an expert, nor am I Canadian. What I know is the little I've picked up from visiting Canadian family. But while there so much of our garbage would get rerouted from regular trash (diapers, for example, would go into the green bin, along with paper towels and food scraps). Once you separated and sorted that, plus all your recyclables, the amount of plain old trash was greatly reduced.

I'm sure there were more things I wanted to respond to but this is what I can remember right now. I don't get why people seem so threatened at the idea of being more environmentally conscientious. Honestly once you get over the initial hurdle, it really gets very simple. Looks at us Israelis! People flipped out a few years back when they were told they were being cut off from their plastic shopping bags. Now everyone, young and old, has gotten used to carrying their grocery bags with them. What a wonderful, huge leap in the right direction!
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 2:14 am
I started using far less disposables when I got a dishwasher. The dishwasher has probably already paid for itself in less paper goods bought!

I would use even less paper goods if I could come up with enough money to get a big enough matching set for all of our Shabbos guests. Although it would pay for itself over time, like this I'm only spending a few dollars a week as opposed to scraping together a few hundred dollars all at once.

My biggest problem with environmentalism is time. When we had a friend that picked up our compost and added it to her pile, I was very happy to compost. It was just a matter of rerouting peels and food scraps to a different bin. But if I will also have to shlep it outside, stir it, find enough brown matter to add to it, make sure not to overwhelm the pile, keep away animals or buy worms... I am already overwhelmed with my life. I can't also adopt a baby compost pile. If our city would start compost pickup (or if I could even find a service here that would pick up...) I would be very happy about it. I always feel guilty to throw compostable food out.

(My friend told us that the compostable plates are only really good for city compost, a home pile doesn't break them down fast enough, and they would constantly blow away all over her yard.)
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Rappel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 2:52 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
Aren't these paper plates? Or am I misunderstanding? They are at all the party stores here.

https://www.peamitstore.co.il/Cat/47

They are more expensive than the plastic.


That's so cool! I've never seen those here! I'll have to find a peamit store. Do they have the simple, unlined ones?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 3:08 am
amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:
How about using all the money they spent on disposables and buying a dishwasher?
Seriously.
There’s so much waste. Taking care of the environment needs to be a priority in our communities. We owe it to the next generations
Because everyone has space in their homes for dishwashers??????? Really???????? Not everyone can have one. SOme have kitchens that are not big enough for dish washers and some dont have the actual space for one.
What a generalization. Because you have one does not mean that everyone can have one.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 3:10 am
Rappel wrote:
That's so cool! I've never seen those here! I'll have to find a peamit store. Do they have the simple, unlined ones?
This. When we have a lot of guests and not enough real dishes, we buy these, always paper, or at least we try to.
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amother
Seashell


 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 3:48 am
I didnt read the entire thread, really just the OP.
I live in Israel, and I buy disposable and use them every single day of the week, except for shabbat. Our apartment is too small for a dishwasher and my husband refuses to do dishes (lets not turn this thread into a shalom bayis thing.) I refuse to do dishes all of the time, so to compromise, my husband "splurges" and buys plastic for the week and thats how we live. Am I happy that we are hurting the environment? No. But am I willing to become the dish rag that washes the dishes from all meals, all week? No. And yes, I know, I can teach my husband to wash dishes. Trust me, I tried. He is unteachable. And he is unwilling most of the time.
So, you tell me, whats more important, my shalom bayis or the environement at this very moment in time? But thanks for judging people who do always use plastic.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 4:20 am
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
I didnt read the entire thread, really just the OP.
I live in Israel, and I buy disposable and use them every single day of the week, except for shabbat. Our apartment is too small for a dishwasher and my husband refuses to do dishes (lets not turn this thread into a shalom bayis thing.) I refuse to do dishes all of the time, so to compromise, my husband "splurges" and buys plastic for the week and thats how we live. Am I happy that we are hurting the environment? No. But am I willing to become the dish rag that washes the dishes from all meals, all week? No. And yes, I know, I can teach my husband to wash dishes. Trust me, I tried. He is unteachable. And he is unwilling most of the time.
So, you tell me, whats more important, my shalom bayis or the environement at this very moment in time? But thanks for judging people who do always use plastic.


I could have written this. Exact. Same. Situation.

And no, we can't afford cleaning help to come and do the dishes every day, every other day, whatever it would take....
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Shuly




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 5:05 am
I use disposables every day of the week including shabbos.
In a tiny rented apt with no dishwasher and a bunch of little kids, it's hard enough to find time to wash the pots, pans, knives peelers, cutting boards, serving spoons and serving platters.
I do the cooking and my husband does the dishes but even without eating on regular dishes, we have a sink full of things to wash when I'm finished cooking and another sink full of things to wash after we eat.
Disposables helps keep our sanity at this stage in our life and I am grateful for those of you who don't use disposables, allowing me to feel less guilty about using so many! Wink
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 03 2019, 6:27 am
Rappel wrote:
That's so cool! I've never seen those here! I'll have to find a peamit store. Do they have the simple, unlined ones?


The simple, white, unlined paper ones are available (sometimes) at Big Deal, in two sizes: large and small. They come in large packs of like 100 plates.
I only use disposable a handful of times a year and then it is usually these paper ones.
I don't enjoy eating off of plastic and feel better in general about using paper.
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