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Poll

How do you bow on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur?
I don't bow all the way down, but I bow deeper than usual.
 34%  [ 75 ]
I bow like I do for a regular bow.
 29%  [ 63 ]
Does not apply, I don't make it to shul.
 10%  [ 22 ]
Hu? I've never heard of anyone other than the Baal T'fillah doing this.
 6%  [ 15 ]
I bow all the way down each time.
 18%  [ 41 ]
Total Votes : 216


amother




OP


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 2:56 pm
zaq wrote:
By all the way down, do you mean kneeling on the floor? I have seen this only in recent years. In the litvishe shul where I grew up, women did not do this, ever. It wasn’t even a thought. Later on I read here and there that women don’t do this for reasons of tzniut. Maybe yes maybe no.

In my current shul, this was also never the custom even though its founders were primarily yekkes. But in recent years, since going to seminary became practically a mitzvah mideoraita, the girls coming back from seminary have adopted this practice, and so many of the older women have followed suit. Not I, though. I have no intention of changing my minhag even if sometimes I do remain, quite literally, the last woman standing. I don’t understand my counterparts who have switched in midstream , especially at an age at which this exercise is awkward and difficult. Those post-seminarians are no more correct than we are, just more ostentatious.


I dont know what I mean. I dont look at the women closely enough to see what they are doing. I think face to the floor? Not sure. My husband puts his face to the floor.

I agree 100% I've seen more of this in the last 10 years. A few years ago, one of the schools where I live gave out a kneeling cloth type thing with the name of the school on it. It said vhakohanim... that whole thing.
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amother




OP


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 2:58 pm
amother [ Green ] wrote:
As a child in a Young Israel I never saw anyone bow with their head to the ground. Maybe men, but I wouldn't have known that.
It amazed me as younger girls coming back from seminary started bowing to the ground. I remember being curious the first time I saw it, wondering what they were passing paper towels around for.
And now, in Israel, it seems pretty common though most young girls and ladies still do not where I daven.
We do bow deeper and longer than usual, though.


Lol yes! I remember this also and was SO CONFUSED the first time! A young woman walked around passing out paper towels and I was so embarrassed that I had NO IDEA why!
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:12 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I dont know what I mean. I dont look at the women closely enough to see what they are doing. I think face to the floor? Not sure. My husband puts his face to the floor.

I agree 100% I've seen more of this in the last 10 years. A few years ago, one of the schools where I live gave out a kneeling cloth type thing with the name of the school on it. It said vhakohanim... that whole thing.
.

Ever practical, I always thought the mats were to protect the knees of one’s trousers. They’re actually to keep the worshipper from kneeling on stone, which is connected to avodah zarah . It is forbidden to kneel directly on stone. A mat or cloth is used even if the shul is carpeted.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:22 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I dont know what I mean. I dont look at the women closely enough to see what they are doing. I think face to the floor? Not sure. My husband puts his face to the floor.

I agree 100% I've seen more of this in the last 10 years. A few years ago, one of the schools where I live gave out a kneeling cloth type thing with the name of the school on it. It said vhakohanim... that whole thing.


Lol- our kids used to come home from gan with cloths like this that they had decorated Rolling Eyes
Talk about how a minhag is disseminated.... Wink .
I still have them put away with the machzorim. I think DH uses them.
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:23 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I dont know what I mean. I dont look at the women closely enough to see what they are doing. I think face to the floor? g.


What I would call bowing all the way —if I used that expression—is a sustained, low bow while standing, folding the body in the middle as far as practicable, as opposed to the brief, sketchy bow performed the rest of the year. That’s why I asked for clarification. Kneeling or standing is the difference.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:27 pm
zaq wrote:
By all the way down, do you mean kneeling on the floor? I have seen this only in recent years. In the litvishe shul where I grew up, women did not do this, ever. It wasn’t even a thought. Later on I read here and there that women don’t do this for reasons of tzniut. Maybe yes maybe no.

In my current shul, this was also never the custom even though its founders were primarily yekkes. But in recent years, since going to seminary became practically a mitzvah mideoraita, the girls coming back from seminary have adopted this practice, and so many of the older women have followed suit. Not I, though. I have no intention of changing my minhag even if sometimes I do remain, quite literally, the last woman standing. I don’t understand my counterparts who have switched in midstream , especially at an age at which this exercise is awkward and difficult. Those post-seminarians are no more correct than we are, just more ostentatious.


Exactly how I feel about it.
It's total peer pressure.
I also have had no problem being the only woman standing and have firmly told my daughters that it is not our minhag.
It's funny, but in the last year or two I've noticed that there are others now who used to bow down all the way who no longer do so. I'm sure that not all of them suddenly have medical conditions Wink
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mommy12




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:30 pm
In the shul I grew up in, some women did and some didn't. At my current shul, many women do and they pass out towels to put on the floor.
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grace413




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:40 pm
mha3484 wrote:

older age if I bowed now I would not be able to get up so I just bow down as low as I can.


This is what I came here to say.
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Iymnok




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:44 pm
Dh said ladies don’t bow, those that do, do so out of ignorance. Dh brings a white bath towel and kneels to bow. Laying flat on the floor shows gaaiva and should only be done in the Beis Hamikdash.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 3:56 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Why?

You do you. Let others do themselves.

While many women do kneel all the way down at my shul (I do), hte shul police don't admonish those who don't. They don't even attack women who don't wear white.

Gmar chatima tov.


Because it becomes a thing, then a chumra, then a norm. And for various reasons I do not want to do it, nor to be the odd one out when I can avoid. Nor even to disclose why I don't and feel either lax or people wondering that I'm pregnant. When I can stand as fasting I will try to go to the more modern kehila where non of this is a thing. The shtarker one tending to have brennendik BTs and foreign sem

My husband says in ashkenazi shuls he has been, only shaliach tzibbur.
North africans tend more.
I read this about eurosefardi and laughed "it's actually one of the things I like least about S&P, that "decorum" essentially trumps actual worship."


Last edited by Ruchel on Mon, Oct 07 2019, 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Babypink


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 4:02 pm
I don't bow all the way down to the floor...just deeper than usual. I believe that if you do bow all the way down, you need to put a little rug or something on the floor - but I'd need to check on that.
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amother




Pumpkin


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 4:45 pm
In my fairly modern OOT shul, almost everyone did this. This was the 80's. My mom grew up traditional (Orthodox shul, Shabbos cnadles and Friday night dinner), and she did this too. But we didn't do a floor covering if the floor was already covered in carpet. Today I just use the sweater I always bring because shul is freezing for women.
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chayamo




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 4:48 pm
I don’t go to shul these days because of my kids, but growing up in a very ueshivish shul, everyone Bowed completely on the floor. I didn’t know people didn’t
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amother




Crimson


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 5:15 pm
I started a thread about this a couple years ago. Maybe someone can find the thread and post a link. It should be in this forum, probably from 2-3 years ago.
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kgh180




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 5:38 pm
If I bowed all the way to the floor, I wouldn't be able to get up.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 9:34 pm
Iymnok wrote:
Dh said ladies don’t bow, those that do, do so out of ignorance. Dh brings a white bath towel and kneels to bow. Laying flat on the floor shows gaaiva and should only be done in the Beis Hamikdash.


WHAT? That's not a nice way to talk about other people's minhagim.

At both Ezra Bessaroth and at BCMH, we would put our coats, sweaters, or a shawl on the floor, and then bow all the way down (not from a standing position, but knees and head on the floor.)

The only times I ever saw anyone opt out, was if they physically couldn't do it, like if they were very pregnant or very elderly.
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amother




Ruby


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 9:49 pm
I'm from the yeshivish / litvish world and I've never seen this. They pass around papers for the men and all the women watch the men do it (cuz it's fascinating to see).
I'm from Lakewood and I've never seen anyone here do it. Was always taught that it is something that only men do.
Some women will bow down a bit lower, though not on the floor.
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momtra




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 10:01 pm
I’ve heard ( and confirmed with my Rav) that in the Ezras Nashim in the Bria hamikdash, women did not bow all the way / so I do not bow - but am definitely one of the very few women who don’t ( yeshivish shul)
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 10:58 pm
Until now I never heard of the ladies bowing. Only the men do this.
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princessleah




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Oct 07 2019, 11:27 pm
I get down on my knees and bow low but don’t touch my head to the floor.

Growing up in a chassidishe shul, everyone did it— men and women. The women’s section was carpeted and for the men they passed out newspapers. One year, my father bowed and saw in the news that Mr. Hooper from Sesame Street had died. He told us during the break. :-(
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