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HPV mandates coming in January 2020
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 12:25 pm
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
You're not antivaxx for opposing vaccines that are for diseases that are not contagious without certain types of contact.

Exactly.


Unfortunately, however, in today's climate, you will probably be boxed in together with all the crazies if you don't embrace everything Pharma has to offer.


I called it above vaccine-hesitant. Do you have a better name?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 12:27 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
You've GOT to separate logic from emotion. You've GOT to stop discounting information because of the "anti-vaxxers you know who xyz" or "if they only would have...." or some idiotic poster's silly question.


What about discounting information from manipulated sources? What if the majority of the claims are false and only a small portion are true?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 12:31 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How would you go ahead doing that? Nearly every vaccine injury is dismissed, invalidated, and unreported. Especially in today's climate.

I'm not understanding where Lindenberg comes into the picture.

And again, anti-vaxxers aren't whom I'm addressing in my OP (as they are already against any vaccine), so I don't see why you keep talking about deals that should have been made with lawmakers.


My child had a vaccine injury and it wasn't discounted at all so what did I do differently?
I keep talking about the deals that should have been because look where it stands now! How did we get here?
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 12:35 pm
I'm just going to point out that "monogamous" is not necessarily "one and only."
People are monogamous even if they have had ten partners, as long as they never had more than one partner at a time.
The frum community wants to believe that its members are "one and only" people, other than those people in second or third marriages, who have had 2-3 partners over their entire lifetime.

Those people in "one and only" relationships don't need the HPV vaccine (as long as they are not raped/ molested). But any frum person who "messes around" before marriage, might not tell parents and/ or shadchan, so unless a couple is very very very open with each other they may well not know if the person they are marrying is a "one and only" person or not. Which is why it might be worth weighing the vaccine after all.

Personally, I am not sure we are going to give our kids the HPV (we are very very very pro-vax otherwise, "vaccine-hesitant" is absolutely not a good way to describe us), but we will definitely talk to our kids about the risks of not having a "one and only" and of not marrying smart, because those risks are real.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 1:29 pm
Kids who are promiscuous probably don't stay with one partner for very long or limit themselves to one person. Some kids are really wild.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 1:56 pm
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You are here: Home › The College Speaks › Position Statements of the College › Health Issues › New Concerns about the Human Papillomavirus Vaccine
New Concerns about the Human Papillomavirus Vaccine
American College of Pediatricians – January 2016

The American College of Pediatricians (The College) is committed to the health and well-being of children, including prevention of disease by vaccines. It has recently come to the attention of the College that one of the recommended vaccines could possibly be associated with the very rare but serious condition of premature ovarian failure (POF), also known as premature menopause. There have been two case report series (3 cases each) published since 2013 in which post-menarcheal adolescent girls developed laboratory documented POF within weeks to several years of receiving Gardasil, a four-strain human papillomavirus vaccine (HPV4).1,2 Adverse events that occur after vaccines are frequently not caused by the vaccine and there has not been a noticeable rise in POF cases in the last 9 years since HPV4 vaccine has been widely used.

Nevertheless there are legitimate concerns that should be addressed: (1) long-term ovarian function was not assessed in either the original rat safety studies3,4 or in the human vaccine trials, (2) most primary care physicians are probably unaware of a possible association between HPV4 and POF and may not consider reporting POF cases or prolonged amenorrhea (missing menstrual periods) to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), (3) potential mechanisms of action have been postulated based on autoimmune associations with the aluminum adjuvant used1 and previously documented ovarian toxicity in rats from another component, polysorbate 80,2 and (4) since licensure of Gardasil® in 2006, there have been about 213 VAERS reports (per the publicly available CDC WONDER VAERS database) involving amenorrhea, POF or premature menopause, 88% of which have been associated with Gardasil®.5 The two-strain HPV2, CervarixTM, was licensed late in 2009 and accounts for 4.7 % of VAERS amenorrhea reports since 2006, and 8.5% of those reports from February 2010 through May 2015. This compares to the pre-HPV vaccine period from 1990 to 2006 during which no cases of POF or premature menopause and 32 cases of amenorrhea were reported to VAERS.

Many adolescent females are vaccinated with influenza, meningococcal, and tetanus vaccines without getting Gardasil®, and yet only 5.6% of reports related to ovarian dysfunction since 2006 are associated with such vaccines in the absence of simultaneous Gardasil® administration. The overwhelming majority (76%) of VAERS reports since 2006 with ovarian failure, premature menopause, and/or amenorrhea are associated solely with Gardasil®. When VAERS reports since 2006 are restricted to cases in which amenorrhea occurred for at least 4 months and is not associated with other known causes like polycystic ovary syndrome or pregnancy, 86/89 cases are associated with Gardasil®, 3/89 with CervarixTM, and 0/89 with other vaccines administered independently of an HPV vaccine.5 Using the same criteria, there are only 7 reports of amenorrhea from 1990 through 2005 and no more than 2 of those associated with any one vaccine type.

Few other vaccines besides Gardasil® that are administered in adolescence contain polysorbate 80.6 Pre-licensure safety trials for Gardasil® used placebo that contained polysorbate 80 as well as aluminum adjuvant.2,7 Therefore, if such ingredients could cause ovarian dysfunction, an increase in amenorrhea probably would not have been detected in the placebo controlled trials. Furthermore, a large number of girls in the original trials were taking hormonal contraceptives which can mask ovarian dysfunction including amenorrhea and ovarian failure.2 Thus a causal relationship between human papillomavirus vaccines (if not Gardasil® specifically) and ovarian dysfunction cannot be ruled out at this time.

Numerous Gardasil safety studies, including one released recently,8 have looked at demyelinating and autoimmune diseases and have not found any significant problems. Unfortunately, none of them except clinical safety pre-licensure studies totaling 11,778 vaccinees9 specifically addressed post-vaccination ovarian dysfunction. While data from those studies do not indicate an increased rate of amenorrhea after vaccination, the essential lack of saline placebos and the majority of participants taking hormonal contraceptives in those studies preclude meaningful data to rule out an effect on ovarian function.

A Vaccine Safety Datalink POF study is planned to address an association between these vaccines and POF, but it may be years before results will be determined. Plus, POF within a few years of vaccination could be the tip of the iceberg since ovarian dysfunction manifested by months of amenorrhea may later progress to POF. Meanwhile, the author of this statement has contacted the maker of Gardasil, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to make known the above concerns and request that (1) more rat studies be done to look at long-term ovarian function after HPV4 injections, (2) the 89 VAERS reports identified with at least 4 months amenorrhea be reviewed by the CDC for further clarification since the publicly available WONDER VAERS database only contains initial reports, and (3) primary care providers be notified of a possible association between HPV and amenorrhea. A U.S. Government Representative responded that they “will continue to conduct studies and monitor the safety of HPV vaccines. Should the weight of the evidence from VAERS or VSD and other sources indicate a likely causal association between POF and HPV vaccines, appropriate action will be taken in terms of communication and public health response.”

The College is posting this statement so that individuals considering the use of human papillomavirus vaccines could be made aware of these concerns pending further action by the regulatory agencies and manufacturers. While there is no strong evidence of a causal relationship between HPV4 and ovarian dysfunction, this information should be public knowledge for physicians and patients considering these vaccines.

Primary author: Scott S. Field, MD
January 2016

The American College of Pediatricians is a national medical association of licensed physicians and healthcare professionals who specialize in the care of infants, children, and adolescents. The mission of the College is to enable all children to reach their optimal, physical and emotional health and well-being.

A printable Adobe Acrobat (pdf) copy of this position is available by clicking here: New Concerns about the Human Papillomavirus Vaccine.

References:

1. Colafrancesco S, Perricone C, Tomljenovic L, Shoenfeld Y. Human papilloma virus vaccine and primary ovarian failure: another facet of the autoimmune/inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants. Am J Reprod Immunol. 2013; 70:309-316.

2. Little DT, and Ward HR. Adolescent premature ovarian insufficiency following human papillomavirus vaccination: a case series seen in general practice. J Inv Med High Imp Case Rep. 2014; doi: 10.1177/2324709614556129, pp 1-12.

3. Wise LD, Wolf JJ, Kaplanski CV, Pauley CJ, Ledwith BJ. Lack of effects on fertility and developmental toxicity of a quadrivalent HPV vaccine in Sprague-Dawley rats. Birth Defects Res B Dev. 2008; 83(6):561-572.

4. Segal L, Wilby OK, Willoughby CR, Veenstra S, Deschamps M. Evaluation of the intramuscular administration of CervarixTM vaccine on fertility, pre- and post-natal development in rats. Reprod Toxicol. 2011; 31:111-120.

5. Information available through http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html.

6. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pu......pdf.

7. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/B......pdf, p.373.

8. Vichnin M, Bonanni P, Klein NP, Garland SM, Block SL, Kjaer SK, et. al. An overview of quadrivalent human papillomavirus vaccine safety – 2006 to 2015. Pediatr Inf Dis J. 2015; doi: 10.1097/INF.0000000000000793, pp 1-48.

9. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/B......pdf, p.394,396.

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I was finally successful at copying and pasting.
This says that there were some cases of ovarian failure from Gardasil. It doesn't appear to be common but it has happened.
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 1:59 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Exactly.


Unfortunately, however, in today's climate, you will probably be boxed in together with all the crazies if you don't embrace everything Pharma has to offer.


I called it above vaccine-hesitant. Do you have a better name?

I can't think of a good name, but it has to reflect that where herd immunity does not apply, there is no reason for it not to be a personal choice, especially considering that this particular vaccine is not given to young children, so it should be both the child's choice and the parent's choice.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 2:57 pm
banana123 wrote:
I'm just going to point out that "monogamous" is not necessarily "one and only."
People are monogamous even if they have had ten partners, as long as they never had more than one partner at a time.
The frum community wants to believe that its members are "one and only" people, other than those people in second or third marriages, who have had 2-3 partners over their entire lifetime.

Those people in "one and only" relationships don't need the HPV vaccine (as long as they are not raped/ molested). But any frum person who "messes around" before marriage, might not tell parents and/ or shadchan, so unless a couple is very very very open with each other they may well not know if the person they are marrying is a "one and only" person or not. Which is why it might be worth weighing the vaccine after all.

Personally, I am not sure we are going to give our kids the HPV (we are very very very pro-vax otherwise, "vaccine-hesitant" is absolutely not a good way to describe us), but we will definitely talk to our kids about the risks of not having a "one and only" and of not marrying smart, because those risks are real.

Personal choice is at the core here. If it's applicable to certain kids, or you feel like a conversation with your child is in order, then go ahead. Just like we don't mandate BC for all teens for the sake of the few who will mess up, we shouldn't be mandating HPV vaccine.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 3:14 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Personal choice is at the core here. If it's applicable to certain kids, or you feel like a conversation with your child is in order, then go ahead. Just like we don't mandate BC for all teens for the sake of the few who will mess up, we shouldn't be mandating HPV vaccine.

Exactly. But the thing is that it's the personal choice of BOTH partners that matters, and your child only has control over his/herself - not over his/her partner (or ch"v molester/ rapist).

I am very in favor of mandating vaccines - but this vaccine should be excluded.

This isn't yet relevant for our kids but we have already talked about people who are irresponsible and get themselves sick, in a more general fashion...
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amother




Coral
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 3:30 pm
Going by this forum alone, there is a not insignificant amount of cheating/addiction/adultery in the frum world too.
The wives of these men should be protected.
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oneofakind




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 4:00 pm
so let them get regular pap smears and don't start smoking.
90 something % of the time it clears by itself.
It's a case of inventing a cure for a problem that doesn't exist. It's considered a rare cancer even by the non-Jews in the Western world who often will have a boyfriend by age 11 and first pregnancy by age 15 or 16 and a minimum of two marriages (not counting all the other relationships)
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 4:10 pm
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
Yes I did. Your article does not indicate that gardasil causes fertility issues rather lower rates of pregnancy in younger ages which could be by choice.

And did you really base your whole opinion of this vaccine on the abstract of an article your friend sent you? Banging head

I wasn't the one doing research, she was...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21449862
Does this article show any higher risk than a normal vaccine risk? Are these the statistics for all vaccines for adverse effect of syncope or seizure (partly do to improper administration but I'm sure that happens all the time)
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amother




Teal
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 4:44 pm
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
Going by this forum alone, there is a not insignificant amount of cheating/addiction/adultery in the frum world too.
The wives of these men should be protected.

Women and men cheat at approximately equivalent rates.
And you forgot the swinging which I've heard is also rampant.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 6:30 pm
Stop supporting the government taking away liberties!!!! Do you understand we will all be allowed to give if we choose to? Noone will prevent those who want from doing what they feel is sound. But taking away freedoms is a DANGEROUS path. Today you might not mind, but come the time it has already had precedents and u disagree, please think about freedom, not pop culture vaxx drama as you consider what to stand for.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 7:18 pm
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
Going by this forum alone, there is a not insignificant amount of cheating/addiction/adultery in the frum world too.
The wives of these men should be protected.

That's the choice of those women to make. I don't see where mandate for school attendance comes into play other than enriching some pockets...
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 7:20 pm
banana123 wrote:
Exactly. But the thing is that it's the personal choice of BOTH partners that matters, and your child only has control over his/herself - not over his/her partner (or ch"v molester/ rapist).

I am very in favor of mandating vaccines - but this vaccine should be excluded.

This isn't yet relevant for our kids but we have already talked about people who are irresponsible and get themselves sick, in a more general fashion...

Same as with BC. Apply whatever you logic you do to explain why teens don't need to be on mandatory BC in order to enter HS.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 7:43 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That's the choice of those women to make. I don't see where mandate for school attendance comes into play other than enriching some pockets...


I agree with this. Whereas diphtheria and pertussis vaccines protect the person who is vaccinated but doesn't prevent the spread of the disease, there is at least the argument that a vaccinated silent carrier can make a non-vaccinated child extremely sick and therefore the district must protect these children from contracting a serious disease at school.
When it comes to STDs, however, education could prevent promiscuous and unprotected behavior and I believe that forcing a vaccine for an STD on a religious person could be interpreted as a violation of religious freedom, even though "sinners", who could become infected with an HPV, dwell among the believers.
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amother




Ivory
 

Post  Thu, Oct 10 2019, 9:05 pm
[quote="amother [ Pewter]” ]
Finally, this vaccine was originally intented for girls and later added for boys. Can you find the reason for that?
[/quote]
Yes. Where do you think the girls are getting it from??
Most girls in the frum communities are not at risk. However, some are because either they or their partner (with or without their knowledge) is not monogamous. Or if someone was abused/raped they are at risk. It prevents the virus that causes cancer.
I do not believe it should be mandatory to attend school because it is not transmitted casually by sitting in class together.
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amother




Coral
 

Post  Fri, Oct 11 2019, 12:21 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That's the choice of those women to make. I don't see where mandate for school attendance comes into play other than enriching some pockets...


By the time the women are in that situation, it's too late.
The vaccine prevents them from catching the virus in the first place.
I dont think it should be mandatory, just that it's important to realise that it can prevent disease in the frum world too.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Oct 11 2019, 12:24 am
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
By the time the women are in that situation, it's too late.
The vaccine prevents them from catching the virus in the first place.
I dont think it should be mandatory, just that it's important to realise that it can prevent disease in the frum world too.

That's all this thread is about, so did you submit your opinion on this bill? Link in OP.
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