DH asks,Does G-d really care

amother

Violet

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 7:16 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

The reason we are here is to EARN olam habba.
That’s the point of it all.
Fill your wallet as much as you can for as long as you can, bec when your time is up it’s all over, and you get rewarded for what you earned as is. You can only “shop” in olam habba with reward for mitzvot and maasim Tovim. That’s the currency.
Each year on the yahrtzeit there’s a new evaluation and you can get upgrades (aliya l’neshama) based on what you earned that past year. Q. How can you earn?
A. 1.Any mitzva your child or grandchild did over the year you also get rewarded for. 2. Any mitzva others did on your behalf. But if they’re not a descendant they have to say specifically that it’s to benefit your so and so’s Neshama.
Don’t waste time. Life is only 80-90 yrs max for most ppl......

I've seen this attitude on this site so many times- that we are here to earn Olam Haba.

While that's certainly part of it, I don't think that's the ikar purpose of our lives on this earth.

"Hayom la'asosam umachar l'kabel s'charam..." - today, our primary concern should be with doing the mitzvos.

If asked what our primary mission is in this world, my response would be that it's to be a representative of G-d, in whatever way that means. "Sheyehei shem Shamayim mis'aheiv al yadcha..."

1ofbillions

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 8:13 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

With all due respect, just because you didn’t like Rabbi Ashear, it’s a very big assumption on your part (and a WRONG ONE) that everyone else is. He helped me tremendously and there’s a reason why he’s such a popular speaker and author who sells millions of his Emunah books. Your advice is not helpful.

There definitely are people who he’s helped. I know several of them.

My point is that for the kind of person that OP’s husband appears to be, his brand of inspiration doesn’t cut it. For my personality type and thinking style, the stories he tells just make me roll my eyes and mock Judaism. Not everyone is like that - the people that connect to his outlook should feel free to continue consuming his content, and being inspired.

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 8:35 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

But he also is providing solace and comfort by indicating thru his book and just about all of his online stories that emunah will lead to hashem fixing the problem. Chaper 19 in his first book, on page 61 is actually titled "emunah cures illness". He immediately goes on to describe a story where a patient is diagnosed with cancer and is given a grim prognosis. The patient does not lose faith and continues to thank hashem. Shortly after the doctors exclaim that a miracle has happened and the man is completely cured of cancer. On the very next page a story is told about a talmid who is walking with the bal shem tov in the desert. The talmud is dehydrated and concerned he will die. The bal shem tov tells him that hashem is in charge and he need not worry. All of the sudden a man on a camel with lots of extra water happens by and saves the mans life.

So some people look at his stories and say, wow, emunah can achieve amazing things! I will work on my emunah and get closer to hashem.
Others look at his book and wonder if this rabbi is making things up.

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 8:47 pm

I was reading his book for teens over YK and to be honest, it was making me a little angry. I loved the idea of being positive and letting go, of doing your histadlut and leaving it in the hands of Hashem, BUT, it was all nice and good that a splinter or stubbed toe was a kapparah, that not getting a job was setting you up for a better job around the corner, that the shidduch that was declined was in preparation for you to meet your bashert next....but I was having trouble with a very sick child being a kapparah.... does anyone really say, I'm so glad that my young or teen child was so ill and will never fully recover in this world? Wow, Hashem did me a favor making the child suffer in this world so it will be smooth in the next?
Maybe I'm just not in that madrega.

marina

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 9:05 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

this does not speak to me it seems very superficial

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 9:12 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

So some people look at his stories and say, wow, emunah can achieve amazing things! I will work on my emunah and get closer to hashem.
Others look at his book and wonder if this rabbi is making things up.

Sorry , but those kind of stories happen in all religions or sects or “New Age” movement have a name for it and pseudo scientific explanations like “ Law of attraction “ . And doctors even have explanation for some of them - the power of placebo. They don’t prove anything.
May be many of FF just don’t know other sects and other philosophies so they can believe that . Sorry but I know too much ...

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 9:28 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

Sorry but if we here only for Olam habba, why the Torah never even mentioned that ? It says that we should do Mitzvot OR we will loose Eretz Israel. And it did happened- twice. And that we never be safe in other countries, and it is happening.
But never it explicitly mentioned Olam Haba and that is our purpose . If HaShem never mentioned this - how do we know FOR SURE ? Nobody came back from the dead (not in Judaism;) ) . It’s also not seats so well with the notion that HaShem is kind and loving . If you make a mistake here once and you didn’t have time to repent and fix it, are you condemned for eternity? Really , no father could do this for his children. We really don’t understand HaShem of course but we can only guess , and never be sure of what happens after we die .
And it’s interesting to hear about near death experiences of different cultures. They are different !

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Oct 10 2019, 10:10 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I think this is where your issue lies. You are disillusioned because you relied on the fact that there would be good answers, just as you're now assuming that the women on this thread are doing.

Actually, most of us, struggling or not struggling with emunah, are in a better place because we know that there are no conclusive answers, and we are not disillusioned by that fact. I didn't think there were perfect answers when I was 16, and I certainly don't believe so now.

Actually, "complete faith" and "there are no answers" are exactly harmonious. Faith and knowledge are often direct opposites. We have faith.

I learned this in seminary- I wish I knew what the source was. Emunah comes "b'makom shekalah sechel ha'adam" - at the exact moment and extent when a person's sechel ends. The ultimate avodah is coming to a place where the rational knowledge, faith, and emotional connection are in harmony and in sync. Obviously, this is a lifelong work.

[u]

I don't see how someone can benefit from being unsure about things that are at the very core of our religion. How is it a good thing if someone says they are 50% the torah is divine and 50% that it's man made?

Imagine you are told to take a long journey, say a 20 hour drive. You are instructed to go straight. Early on there is a slight fork that will either take you to the right or the left. The instructions you received didn't account for this. In this example there is no one to ask for help. You ultimately decide to go to the right even though you are really unsure. As you continue driving further and further and the hours are going by, you can't help but wonder if this is completely the wrong path. You know intellectually that it was a guess and there's a 50% chance it's the road to nowhere. That's kind of where I'm at. At almost every turn I'm wondering if this is real. Very often it doesn't matter because the rules we live by are good and make sense anyway. Honoring parents, helping the needy, the sense of community, it's all good. It's just when I'm davening, hearing halochos about certain things, listening to apologetic explanations regarding about various torah teachings, it gets me thinking.

imorethanamother

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 12:54 am

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

You say to stop looking for answers because there aren't any. I'm willing to bet almost all the women on this thread are all-in with religion. They have zero doubts and are sure it's all true. I used to think they had the answers. Now I know that it's really because they've accepted everything and are (smartly) not looking for questions.

Oh ye of little faith. (I have to laugh at my own pun, thank you very much.)

I'm writing this under my own screen name. I was nearly kicked out of schools for the types of questions I had. My parents couldn't stand it either and it's a running joke in my family. I was always combative and reading, fighting and learning. To this day, I still have questions and questions and questions. Who said I'm all in with anything? Who said anyone on this thread has accepted anything? Who said no one has doubts?

I used to write down my questions and mail it to my high school Rabbi. (Back then in the dark ages, teens didn't have email addresses.) I used to stay after class to speak to anyone I thought could help me understand a passage better. I entered a program geared for adults who were becoming religious to learn about everything from the beginning.

Heck, in this day and age, we teach our kids to have doubts about whether they're even a boy or a girl. Doubt is part and parcel of our world. Some people squash it. Some people wrestle with it. Some people have made peace with it. The people answering this thread are usually the latter. But many wrestle with it, and a popular lecturer on Torah Anytime is not going to bring up a very thorny faith-question on mainstream media and attempt to tackle it. That's more of a private conversation, I think.

The Ani Maa'min isn't about what you already have faith in, but what you should realize to be true. And who said that it isn't a journey? Korach took an accelerated course, sure, but at some point the destination should be, for example, that Moshe is true and his Torah is true.

Everyone comes to their own conclusions based on their own unique way of looking and relating to the world. I had to have a child with severe problems for me to realize that our brains are miraculous things, and can't be explained by any scientific equation. That was the first step in my journey to faith. But it can't be yours. Yours is another path. I urge you to take your own journey, look for things to help you. And doubt or no, ask God to send you people who can help you, because you want to be helped. If you don't, that's another issue.

imorethanamother

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 1:06 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

As someone who understands what you're going through, those aren't the types of books to be reading. Seeing a child suffer is a very unique issue, and it's not something any Rav would attempt to explain away. It's just too difficult.

PM me anytime, if you ever want to talk. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Mommyg8

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 1:58 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

I don't want to get into this. I came across it in a classic text, and asked my Rav about it. He agreed that the Tannaim didn't daven the way we daven today, like Hashem is our fairy godmother, and that bad things in our lives are to be wished away. They believed that Hashem knew best, so there was no reason to daven about it. But he also said that "Kamayim, haPanim el Panim", that sometimes a generation changes with its relationship to Hashem, and Hashem "changes" His approach to that generation like a mirror. It's all very light on details.

Tehillim - "expresses many needs". What? It says praise for Hashem, Dovid does a lot of Viduy, and there are general prayers like, "Please hear me, please answer me when I call" in terms of saving his own life from his enemies.

Isn't there a mitzvas aseih to daven when there is a tzarah? How does that fit in to what your Rav told you?

And we have a requirement to daven three times a day, including many supplications for good things, chayim tovim, parnasah, zerah shekayama... what is that about? Just some mumbo jumbo to keep us busy?

Mommyg8

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 2:12 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

Oh, and many people do practice Yiddishkeit in a cult-like manner.

I don't think this is true. Emunah peshutah - which many do practice - and cults, are vastly different things and as far as I can tell have very little in common.

My history is a bit fuzzy at this point, but wasn't this the argument between the Rambam and other Rabbanim of those times? Many banned Morah Nevuchim, to the point that it was actually burned, right? And wasn't the Ramchal, who attempted to explain Judaism rationally, a very controversial figure in his day as well?

Not everyone thinks that delving into these topics logically is a good thing.

As an aside, an excellent starting point that I liked very much is Rejoice O Youth and Sing You Righteous, by Rabbi Avigdor Miller. While it's written many years ago and some of the thoughts he expressed are already dated, I still think it's a good starting point.

Interesting seforim to read- Derech Hashem by the Ramchal, and, if you're litvish - Nefesh Hachaim by Harav Chaim Volozhin. Also commentaries to the chumash (like the Ramban), also any commentary on sefer Iyov (I have the Malbim in English but I didn't start it yet, I'll let you know how it goes).

Mommyg8

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 2:18 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

And I don't think he's right. According to the Ramchal, there are many reasons why bad things happen to people, and the reason that it's really a concealed good is only one reason. There are many others. How can he guarantee that that is the reason every time when it is clearly not the case?

Mommyg8

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 2:25 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

Torah shebaal peh talks about the next world and reward and punishment. Torah shebaal peh came down with Moshe at Sinai just like Torah shebichsav did.

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 3:24 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I don't think this is true. Emunah peshutah - which many do practice - and cults, are vastly different things and as far as I can tell have very little in common.

Totally off top of your post (Sorry Mommyg8) - you just reminded me of the term emunah peshutah. Which BTW I learned that does not mean what many people think - blindly not asking questions and believing. It means that the basis for the world and Hashem should be so painfully obvious BECAUSE you know knowledge, facts, and information. And you should go out and there and learn those things.

To be it's painfully obvious there is a Hashem. There's no way this world came to be on it's own. The statistics of it doing so are so ridiculous.

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 3:27 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I agree.
Growing up I rarely heard about olam haba or gehenom.
We are here to make this world holy, to do good, to do Hashem's mitzvos, to follow in his ways, to build families, to build and change ourselves.

My reward or what hell will happen to me are thoughts I never have and I don't think they are thoughts we SHOULD have.

LovesHashem

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 3:34 am

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

My issue is that I don't feel that religion is something you can do halfway. That's where I'm stuck. I live my life as a fully orthodox woman and follow all halacha, but question whether it's all real. It's odd actually standing in shul fasting and davening on Yom Kippur, and wondering if this is real.

You say to stop looking for answers because there aren't any. I'm willing to bet almost all the women on this thread are all-in with religion. They have zero doubts and are sure it's all true. I used to think they had the answers. Now I know that it's really because they've accepted everything and are (smartly) not looking for questions. So often (even on this thread) when people have questions about emunah or faith, people respond to listen to this or that rabbi. I don't think the people offering the suggestion actually have the answers. Like you said, there aren't any. I think that for example they've heard rabbi YY jacobson speak and they know he is an eloquent, articulate and dynamic speaker with hundreds of lectures. Surely the answer is somewhere in the hundreds of hours of lectures.

I'm also disillusioned because this came to me as somewhat of a shock. When I graduated high school I didn't have a doubt in my mind about anything. When questions first started coming up I was sure there would be clear and conclusive answers. Obviously I was disappointed when I realized that as you said, there are no good answers. This directly conflicts with the ani maamin we say every day about various beliefs that we believe beemuna shlaima- with complete and total faith. "Complete faith" and "there are no answers" don't exactly go together.

There's no 100 proof answers for any religion. You need to realize that. You can't prove any religion. You can though, give a lot of evidence, through small things. And that's adds up. In real life in court you don't need proof many times, you can work off of evidence.

amother

Brunette

Fri, Oct 11 2019, 5:06 am

Didn’t read every post but ya it’s not ONLY olam habba it’s also olam hazze. It’s about earning olam habba, but not just.
Even to live the best olam hazze one needs to keep the Torah and that’s why Olam habba isn’t mentioned in Torah shebichtav.
V’atem tihiyu li manlechet kohanim v’[gentile] Kaddosh, a holy nation amongst the other nations.
Avraham avinu recognized G-d in the world at three yrs old, and wanted to live with Him. G-d chose him along with Yitzchak and Yaakov to become the forefathers of His chosen nation. Avraham Avinu made a bris, covenant with G-d to become His, for real and forever (olam haze and olam habba).
The chosen nation goes through his son Yitzchok (ki b’yitzchak yikorai l’cha zera) down to Matan Torah all the way until you.
By living a Torah life, we live the best life in olam hazze, and we also earn our olam habba for all of eternity. Yes, hayom l’asotam umachar l’kabel scharam, because there’s no way to repay in this world even for a single mitzva, but living a Torah life is for the best olam hazze too.