Are 5+ hour meals inconsiderate?

amother

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 11:41 am

abound wrote:

I would just go with, Lately Life got hectic and we need quick family meals so it looks like we won't be able to come by for shabbos meals any more. I am glad we were able to spend so many meals with you and we will treasure the memories forever.

easy way to get caught in a lie the next time they hear about you -- or even see you -- going to someone else's home Wink

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 11:56 am

I live in a community where long meals seem to be the norm. Lunches over 4 hours are totally normal. Personally, I try to move the meal along so that whoever wants to stay and shmooze, I'm happy to have them, but whoever wants to get moving can go. Some people do the same; with others, it's a hostage situation. Happens to be that yesterday we went to eat by a family for the first time and the first course was going on forever.... nobody seemed to want to clear the table of the fish and dips. Finally the wife and daughters get up and I think okay, the fish is done and we can finally get to the main.... They leave the sukkah and nothing gets cleared from the table and they come back ten minutes later with trays of warm challahs and sit down, lol! I think we were 2 hours before the table was cleared for meat. That was another 2 hours long. Dessert another hour. FINALLY bentching! 5.5 hours altogether we were there. Can't Believe It

Yeah, it's rough. But the thing is, first time you can be annoyed with them. Second time you go, only one to be annoyed with is yourself! You know what you're getting into and you go willingly, so....

abound

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 11:59 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

easy way to get caught in a lie the next time they hear about you -- or even see you -- going to someone else's home Wink

no, it is not a lie, I said we need quick meals. I would be honest, either quick meals or family time. Thats it.
I do not think that it is rude if you say it nicely and thank them profusely for all the meals you were able to spend together. If you have kids you can blame it on them. etc.

amother

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 12:07 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

woah, this hits too close to home. "hostage situation" is exactly what it felt like. just when you think it's time for the next stage of the meal... nope!

abound wrote:

we're a young recently-married couple w/o kids, so we unfortunately don't have the kids excuse. kid-havers definitely have better excuses for getting out of all sorts of uncomfortable situations like this Wink

amother

Orchid

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 2:59 pm

There is a couple in my community who seem to think it praiseworthy to have extraordinarily long meals. (I don't go to them since we host a lot and there is no eruv anyway.)

She is always boasting to me that their meal lasted until 5pm. We average about 3 hours, I think and that is plenty long enough. If you want your company to stick around, bentch, stick some snacks on the table, and maybe some board games, and invite people to stay.

I must be a very nice person since none of my guests hesitate in leaving early if needed.

amother

Violet

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 4:05 pm

That's wild. People in our community are very social, and shabbat lunches often go on foreeeeeever, mostly because people really like hanging out together. Which is lovely! But we started benching before dessert, and making a little pre-benching announcement saying "We're not kicking you out, dessert will be served after benching, and you're welcome to stay as long as you like, but if you want to go take a nap or something you're also free to go!"

Trapping people at a shabbat meal is just impolite.

Cheiny

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 5:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

with these hosts, politely asking them for benschers and telling them we're going to bensch ourselves and head out would be akin to, say, walking into their kitchen to grab a corkscrew and a better bottle of wine because we didn't like the one they put out.

plus, we're often the only guests, so we'd be "breaking up their party" the minute we leave, and they wouldn't want that. also, they're still slowly trickling out food hours after the meal has begun, so it's not like everyone is done eating and they're just talking.

Your only options are either to stop going to them, or tell them in advance after they invite you, “We love sharing a seuda with you but we are going to have to leave at (set a time)... I hope that’s okay with you.” If she says they can’t do their meal that quickly, then decline. If she agrees, make sure the food is served at a normal pace and remind her you will have to leave at whatever time.

amother

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 6:30 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

It's really not a big deal to say that you're very tired and wuld like to be home before midnight. etc.

unfortunately, with this family, it is a big deal to tell them we need to leave at a certain time. the husband doesn't even listen to his wife telling him to hurry up, so he's not going to listen to us. in the past, we've explicitly told them that we need to leave by a particular time to make an afternoon appearance at a simcha (and repeatedly reminded them of it as hours passed by), only to be totally rebuffed and to have to be very late to the simcha.

I think it's rather naive for us to think that anything different is going to happen if we tell them we need to leave at a certain time. we're fine with that. it's his table, he's set in his ways, and it's not for us to change him or tell him how to run his table. I think the solution, as many others have suggested, is to either go and accept it or simply decline the invites (either directly telling them why, or not).

Raisin

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 5:37 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Why can't you just bentch and leave? No one is holding you hostage. My guests do that all the time.

ora_43

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 9:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What does the bolded mean? Like, you said, "we have to go at 3" but at 3 they were just starting to serve the meal? Or like, you said "OK we have to go now," and he was like "HOW DARE YOU"?

The answer won't affect my advice either way, I'm just morbidly curious because this all sounds so strange.

Look, it sounds like you don't like meals with them, which is totally reasonable because their meals are 5-hour ordeals accompanied by guilt trips. Plus, the chance to witness a father ignoring his wife and kids' unhappiness with his behavior, first-hand. I think most people would say a hard no to that one.

Even if they were the world's best and most considerate hosts, you wouldn't have to go if it wasn't a good experience for you. So kal v'chomer, in this case, it's completely fine to just not go.

I'd be honest about the reason, without judging their way of doing it - "we love spending time with you guys, but with everything going on in our lives right now we prefer to end the meal earlier and (get to bed early/nap/etc)." It's not like you'd be giving them new, potentially hurtful information (like, if they thought their food was good but you thought everything tasted awful). They know their meals are very very long, they know that not everybody likes that, it shouldn't be a huge deal to hear that you're one of the (many) people it doesn't work for.

(not that you need an excuse - but giving them the real reason (hopefully) allows you to be hosted elsewhere without them thinking that you don't like them anymore)

happyone

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 9:16 am

I dont get your question of "inconsidorate". Hosts are hosts and can run their meals as they please. you as the guest and recipient of their kind gesture to be invited can decline if it doesnt meet your needs. who exactly should they be considerate of? if it works for their family, and some view it as quality once a week family time , simply stay home and host your own rushed meals.

groovy1224

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 9:34 am

It seems like I'm a lone voice here, but I actually DO think it's somewhat inconsiderate.

There is obviously a spectrum of ways to run a shabbos meal, some keep it short, some linger, some serve elaborate food, some keep to the basics, etc. But if you have a meal that is extreme in any way, I think it's the polite thing to do to let your guest know, or at the very least give them an 'out' in some fashion.

A 5+ hour meal is not in any way the norm. When people accept an invitation, they have at least a vague idea of how it will go. If I go out for a meal, and then say afterwards one of my kids has a playdate, I let the playdate know that we are out for lunch so we might be a bit delayed, because like I said, the length of meals in different homes vary. But I would never think we would be at the meal until mincha! And I would be extremely irritated.
Are the hosts within their right to have their seudah take as long as possible? Of course. But they absolutely should be letting their guests know beforehand. And then there's the fact that when OP is trying to subtly take her leave they are ignoring her, which is downright bizarre.