This breaks my heart

Plonis

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 11:07 pm

Even if someone passes away from negligence (which does not seem to be true in this case), I would hope that there is more of a lesson we can learn from their passing than simply the safety message.

I feel like it is disrespectful to this young boy's neshama to make him merely a poster child for lightning safety and discount all we can learn from his life which was tragically cut short.

May whatever failing we have as a people that causes young people to be taken from us suddenly and painfully be corrected, and may none of us know any further sorrow.

May his neshama have an aliyah.

chestnut

Wed, Oct 16 2019, 11:37 pm

Plonis wrote:

Amen!!
I'm surprised each time I see it - people blaming the victims/parents for being negligent. It leaves such a sour taste in my mouth when I read it. I mean, just a drop of compassion? Forget that there might be relatives, friends, neighbors here, but just common sense - to talk about negligence when the OP links such heartbreaking news and asking how to process it.
At least start a spin off if you must blame them. Such a poor taste and insensitive to discuss it right here.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 3:46 am

The weather in Israel can change so drastically and quickly, its amazing. On tuesday afternoon, we were in a forest/valley at a farm with kiddie activities. We were in the suka having lunch, sunny as ever. Then, literally seconds passed and the sun disappeared and it turned very windy. And we heard thunder in the distance. We were at the bottom of a very long walk up to our car. We thought to start walking quickly before the rain starts (we were surrounded by trees all over) and we started the long trek up. We were hit, ALL OF A SUDDEN by a down pour of note and thunder and lightening that was definitely not safe among all of those trees. But there was nothing to do and no where to go.
HaShem is the one who decides who lives and who dies and when and how. Thats all there is to say.
This was very tragic, but it happens Sad

Rappel

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 5:39 am

chestnut wrote:

Thank you.

I actually really like the idea about safety training for everyone, לעילוי נשמתו. Accidents happen everywhere, and all the time, and the better trained the local citizenry is, the better the outcome will be for any victims. It was other families on the beach whom ran for help, and administered immediate CPR. I'm sure their efforts helped the family survive until they could receive professional treatment.

I'm talking to our local MDA about running a seminar of first-aid safety for moms, and a CPR course here. I hope it will bear fruit.

cinnamon

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 5:56 am

Lightning is so rare in Israel I honestly don't think anyone knows it's dangerous. There really was no negligence at all.

I remember as a kid I went to America in the summer, we were in the pool when a lightning storm started and everyone jumped out like there was a monster in the water and I couldn't for the life of me understand what the big deal was.

banana123

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 5:58 am

chestnut wrote:

Of course it is heartbreaking.

Imagine how much more heartbreaking it would have been had the MDA paramedics been struck by lightning trying to save the family. Imagine how much more awful the family would have felt had the danger the MDA paramedics put themselves in actually killed them. That they put themselves in danger, it killed their child, but they put others in danger also, and those other people died trying to save their child.

It is not fair to force others to endanger their lives.

Last year every time there was a flood warning people ignored it and went hiking anyways, forcing security and search and rescue personnel to endanger their lives in order to save them - people who had ignored the warnings.

Why is this fair? Why is it lacking compassion to say DON'T IGNORE WARNINGS TO "HAVE FUN" IF THERE IS A HIGH CHANCE IT WILL PUT OTHERS IN A SITUATION THAT ENDANGERS THEIR LIVES? Every single time there is a warning not to hike somewhere or to avoid something - people ignore it. So there was no beach warning, just forecasts of thunder and lightning. Still.

Accidents happen. Of course note everything can be prevented, and everything is in Hashem's hands.

But it really turns my stomach how every time something like this happens - and usually it ends well - no one thinks about the danger they are forcing on first responders.

heidi

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 8:01 am

banana123 wrote:

I actually hear your point
But I'm not sure going to the beach on a gorgeous sunny (till it wasn't) vacation day qualifies as living dangerously.
What about the American girl who went windsailing with an instructor here in Israel about 6 weeks ago. They crashed, the instructor died and tens of people put their lives at risk to rescue her from the side of a mountain.
Was it really necessary for her to go windsailing?
My point is, what is living, enjoying and what is living too dangerously?
Who draws that line?

chestnut

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 8:28 am

banana123 wrote:

My point is, start a new thread about it. Posting it here is very insensitive, imo

Alternative

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 8:30 am

Banana -
Israelis are not warned not to go to the beach during lightning. Hardly anyone knows that. Lightning here usually happens in the dead of winter, when it's already pouring and no one is at the beach anyway.

You keep saying they endangered others. They had no idea. Maybe if a public awareness campaign were started, like there was for wearing helmets or not crossing any street alone till age 9, then you could say they ignored warnings. As it is, your points are not in touch with Israeli culture at all.

Also AFAIK the parents were not there at all. It was a few brothers in their teens and early 20s.

And finally, no one expected lightning unless they were meteorology fans. People keep telling you this, and yet you keep insisting these poor people were somehow responsible, as if they were drinking and driving.

banana123

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 9:22 am

Alternative wrote:

I accede every point except that last paragraph. I don't think it's like drinking and driving. I think it's more akin to ignoring flood warnings or guidelines for safe hiking.

Like this case (except that it posed no danger to the rescuers):
http://www.israelnationalnews......70138

Plonis

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 3:35 pm

In other words, Banana, when you heard the news, your reaction was not sadness, but “Serves them right.”

There is a middle ground between saying that we all have our time so we can walk into traffic, and saying that all death is preventable.

Victim blaming in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy is always in poor taste, and even more so when, as many have pointed out, they could not have reasonably been expected to know the level of danger.

Death by lightning strike is extremely rare, even in areas where no lightning safety is practiced.

banana123

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 4:38 pm

Plonis wrote:

No, it was "ooof, MORE people severely injured??? I don't even want to know how it happened, I can't take any more of this."

Afterwards I found out what happened and got really frustrated. I follow the news and it seems people are getting severely injured/ critically injured/ dying every single day, and not from natural causes or terminal illnesses, and it feels like it never ends and all we can do is sit back and watch.

It was originally reported to be three young men - older teens, early 20s, the age known for taking dumb risks, so it made sense to me that they thought they were invincible.

But originally I was a) upset that "here we go again, more people hurt, I hope they survive" b) upset that this country's education is so lacking in so many ways (I mean I learned this in grade 2-3, in school, in addition to being told by my parents) c) frustrated that people put themselves and others at risk without thinking ahead.

At no time did I think "oh cool they deserve this."

Cheiny

Thu, Oct 17 2019, 9:58 pm

banana123 wrote:

All I can say is, Can't Believe It