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A Frum Jewish Ronan Farrow (#metoo journalist)
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itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 12:03 pm
As a #metoo survivor, I can't help but wonder if it's possible to have a Frum Jewish version of Ronan Farrow?

A respected journalist who's dedicated to investigating and eventually sharing frum Jewish predators.

Would Mishpacha even dare publish an article like that? How would it technically work?
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amother
Beige


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 12:39 pm
There are websites dedicated to that.
JCW
Frum follies
Unorthodox Jew
I think there's also Nuchem Rosenberg's Yiddish hotline, not sure about that one
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 12:41 pm
There's recently been articles and coverage on the topic including:
- The let's Stay safe book
- https://www.jewishcommunitywatch.org/
- Amudim also getting coverage

It's a complicated topic to breach as publicly talking about s-xuality is deemed not tzniyus by many.
Hamodia had an article last year warning of the dangers of incest and wrote the article in a very tzniyus way.


There's the issue with loshon hora too.
And honestly the magazines are a business. Talking about the topic in depth would require so much work to make sure it's done properly, tzniyus, and very vaguely as kids to read the magazines. If you think of the magazines as a business; it's a bad business decision for a frum magazine to have an in depth article on the topic.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 12:43 pm
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
There are websites dedicated to that.
JCW
Frum follies
Unorthodox Jew
I think there's also Nuchem Rosenberg's Yiddish hotline, not sure about that one


Blogs are a skewed place to get news from. One of the blogs had any negative disgusting things to say about someone I know personally that was untrue.

But I'd trust JCW.
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itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 1:30 pm
I'm aware of these organizations.

The reason I say Ronan Farrow is because he's a journalists respected and trusted by all.
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itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 1:41 pm
Does JCW have investigators and journalists on their team?
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 1:50 pm
Sadly, I don't think the Orthodox world would be open to investigative reporting on s-xual abuse, especially within the community. I think more progressive and open minded thinkers would welcome and value it, but there is still a very strong element of cover up, "not in our community", "a Shanda", "Lashon Hora" people that value cover up more than they value the safety and lives of children. Unfortunately, many of these people are also in positions of leadership and power in the communities. It never ceases to shock me how the lives of children are so cheap to these people. And I say this as a survivor as well.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 2:21 pm
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
Sadly, I don't think the Orthodox world would be open to investigative reporting on s-xual abuse, especially within the community. I think more progressive and open minded thinkers would welcome and value it, but there is still a very strong element of cover up, "not in our community", "a Shanda", "Lashon Hora" people that value cover up more than they value the safety and lives of children. Unfortunately, many of these people are also in positions of leadership and power in the communities. It never ceases to shock me how the lives of children are so cheap to these people. And I say this as a survivor as well.

JCW does exactly this. However the issue in my opinion ( as someone who works in the frum magazine world) would be finding people to come forward. Its not the lashon harah, its the shame on the victims part. How many frum women are going to come forward and out their uncle cousin teacher etc etc? Zero. Or close to zero. They aren't interested in sullying their own names. And JCW def covers the cases that do come forward.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 2:26 pm
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
Sadly, I don't think the Orthodox world would be open to investigative reporting on s-xual abuse, especially within the community. I think more progressive and open minded thinkers would welcome and value it, but there is still a very strong element of cover up, "not in our community", "a Shanda", "Lashon Hora" people that value cover up more than they value the safety and lives of children. Unfortunately, many of these people are also in positions of leadership and power in the communities. It never ceases to shock me how the lives of children are so cheap to these people. And I say this as a survivor as well.

It sounds like you're talking more about child s-xual abuse than what Ronan Farrow reported on, but remember that the secular world wasn't all that open to hearing what he discovered, either -- and their excuses for their unwillingness to do so were a lot thinner.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 2:37 pm
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
JCW does exactly this. However the issue in my opinion ( as someone who works in the frum magazine world) would be finding people to come forward. Its not the lashon harah, its the shame on the victims part. How many frum women are going to come forward and out their uncle cousin teacher etc etc? Zero. Or close to zero. They aren't interested in sullying their own names. And JCW def covers the cases that do come forward.


Yes. Unfortunately, the community backlash and discrediting of survivors and their stories has been horrendous. It takes an extremely strong, determined person to come out and be heard, and the person needs to be in an extremely mentally healthy place to put themselves at risk and withstand possible community backlash. I don't know what the answer is.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 2:38 pm
Fox wrote:
It sounds like you're talking more about child s-xual abuse than what Ronan Farrow reported on, but remember that the secular world wasn't all that open to hearing what he discovered, either -- and their excuses for their unwillingness to do so were a lot thinner.


Which points to the overwhelming challenge of doing something like this in the Orthodox community.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 2:50 pm
Ultimately, we don't need a Ronan Farrow "Catch and Kill" journalist as much as we need to embrace laws of yichud more enthusiastically and both explicitly and implicitly impart to our children that there is no achievement worth s-xual "play for pay."
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 2:52 pm
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
Sadly, I don't think the Orthodox world would be open to investigative reporting on s-xual abuse, especially within the community. I think more progressive and open minded thinkers would welcome and value it, but there is still a very strong element of cover up, "not in our community", "a Shanda", "Lashon Hora" people that value cover up more than they value the safety and lives of children. Unfortunately, many of these people are also in positions of leadership and power in the communities. It never ceases to shock me how the lives of children are so cheap to these people. And I say this as a survivor as well.


C'mon it's 2019. It's not about brushing things under the rug. It's the balance to exposing our children to terms like s-x and s-xual abuse. 9 year olds read mishpacha. It has to be done very well.

Like I said, Hamodia has an article last year on INCEST. OK, incest isn't even something I ever think of and is probably 1000 percent more shoved under the rug than s-xual abuse. An article about keeping your eyes open in case your own children are s-xually abusing their younger siblings...

It CAN be done.
It's just very complicated on how.
Also like someone else posted an investigative report would not work because no one would come forward.

I'm a very open person but I'm sorry, the only person who knows how I was s-xually abused is DH and therapist. It's an extremely private and hard thing to open up about regardless of religion. There's simply more non-jews in the world so it's not nearly as hard to find someone willing to open up.

Also yes, there is stigma in the public community.
Meaning to say announcing it publicly is a bad idea, but nowadays if you share you were abused with your family and friends privately it will generally be accepted and be allowed to be spoken about.

Also loshon hora is a valid reason. If the victim is making it up and you publicize someone did a wrong they did NOT you will be punished for that. Forget the punishment in the next world, you could ruin that person' life!
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 3:05 pm
Fox wrote:
Ultimately, we don't need a Ronan Farrow "Catch and Kill" journalist as much as we need to embrace laws of yichud more enthusiastically and both explicitly and implicitly impart to our children that there is no achievement worth s-xual "play for pay."


There is a huge amount of naivete in this post. Your point of view doesn't take into account the psychological effects of grooming on individuals, families, and whole communities, of power differentials and threats, and the psychological makeup and cunning of sociopaths and abusers.

If only yichud and educating children would be enough...
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 3:13 pm
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
There is a huge amount of naivete in this post. Your point of view doesn't take into account the psychological effects of grooming on individuals, families, and whole communities, of power differentials and threats, and the psychological makeup and cunning of sociopaths and abusers.

If only yichud and educating children would be enough...

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm responding to the OP. I can assure you Harvey Weinstein didn't "groom" anybody. He targeted adult women who wanted something from him or were afraid of his ability to undermine their careers.

If you want to talk about children, that's an entirely separate topic and a separate thread.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 3:17 pm
Talking about abuse has been done. Magen Yeladim, Debbie Fox visiting schools speaking to staff and parent body/community, schools having further trained teachers, Headlines programs.
As for what OP is proposing, I hate to say this but I will. Yes, there's no question that an abuser is a rodef and one can if not should go straight to the authorities; many reputable people have gone on record saying that. But I have to say that anyone who wants to do what the OP is suggesting should contact one of those rabbanim for input.
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 3:21 pm
Yichud does nothing to stop same gender abuse. And it's a significant problem.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 3:30 pm
nylon wrote:
Yichud does nothing to stop same gender abuse. And it's a significant problem.

Among adult men and women?
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 3:45 pm
Fox wrote:
I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm responding to the OP. I can assure you Harvey Weinstein didn't "groom" anybody. He targeted adult women who wanted something from him or were afraid of his ability to undermine their careers.

If you want to talk about children, that's an entirely separate topic and a separate thread.


OP did not specify abuse of adults. She talked about exposing predators, which can include children and adults. You're the one that keeps on narrowing the discussion to adults only. And you're the one who brought up education of children.

Being aware of the psychological factors that contribute to the actions of serial predators is important in an educated discussion about s-xual abuse.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Wed, Oct 23 2019, 3:54 pm
Fox wrote:
Among adult men and women?


Malka Liefer is a prominent example of this- I believe at least some of her victims were at the age of consent (although it was still certainly abuse).

There have also been a number of Rebbe/Talmid situations within a similar age category

Yichud is not the be all and end all protection you're making it out to be
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