OTD questions, what was the driving force, turning point

amother

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 10:57 am

Dear follow moms.
First of all, I do not judge anyone who is or has been OTD. Nor do I blame any parents for it.
Unfortunately, we as parents do our best, and its often not in our control.

Because of that, I would like to ‘run a poll’ do some research on why each child/teen/adult left, what was the main factor that drove them in that direction (or turning point).

I just listed some reasons, but feel free to add any.

Each situation is different, but I believe it can help us moms understand what a child might be going through, and what to look out for. And maybe help them in certain areas etc.
I am writing this as I have a teenager, I am really concerned about, and would love to hear from moms of OTD kids or from moms themselves that have been through it, what did the child say (for those who got lucky enough to hear from them) what drive them there.
I hope this post is not taken the wrong way.

Thank you all, this can really help me out.

thunderstorm

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 11:14 am

I believe that just like BTs and Geirim have a strong yearning for a better life. Something inside them doesn’t feel right and they go on their journey of change and metamorphosis in a spiritual way. So too, people that go OTD are also looking for something because something doesn’t feel right internally. Many times the actual discomfort and unease can’t be explained. Theres just a yearning for something better. So they do something different with hopes of feeling better and at peace.
The question is , what is causing these feelings of unease?
Is it lack of belief and wanting answers
Trauma and abuse
Neglect
Feeling different
Low self image
Not feeling like you belong
Family dysfunction
Being bullied by peers, teachers and those who should protect
Raised in Poverty
There are so many reasons that a person would feel the need to search for a better life and sometimes they need to take certain paths , sometimes the wrong paths, until they find themselves.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 11:24 am

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Many don't have a trigger, they just don't believe.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Some people just question more than other people. Smart people question things.
My advice-encourage questions, and find good answers. Don't pretend to know everything, find good answers from people who do know. Admit that not everything has a reason, some things are chok.
Stress halacha and let teen make the decision if they want to keep chumrah.

amother

Linen

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 11:29 am

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Many don't have a trigger, they just don't believe.

Exactly this.

A child who doesn't believe may not not necessarily leave the community. To some extent, that is up to how the parents and community treat the child who does not believe. If they demean and harass the child, that child is less likely to stay within the community. If they accept the child, that child is more likely to stay within the community.

If the child who does not believe stays within the community and is shomer mitzvos at least in front of people, are they OTD? I do not think so. If anything, I would say that this is a child who has tremendous Ahavas Yisroel and can become a strong part of their community.

amother

Violet

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 11:50 am

All your choices have one underlying reason. Severe emotional suffering.

A child who suffers enough and doesn't give up finds a coping technique, it might be a negative coping technique. For some it might be OTD. Others choose substance abuse, self harm, etc.

Edited to add: Some choose positive coping mechanisms like skyrocketing to success...

There I feel is the comorbidity of mesorah not successfully passed on, the way it was given over did not speak to or reach the child. Those would be the " intellectual" reasons.

So maybe a question to ask would be what's contributing to choosing one coping method over another?

Or better, what can a preventative measure be? That answers easy to say, but oh so very complicated to pull off. Love. Love. More love. Total acceptance as a person. Chanoch l'naar al pi darko. See the (emotional) need, fill the need.

Noone needs to wait until someone is OTD to do that, we would all be better for being nurtured that way.

ShishKabob

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 12:12 pm

I would add an option, lack of positive attention.

I also don't think there has to be a driving force or turning point.
Sometimes one thing morphs into another.

Every person is responsible for their actions. Why the blame this thing and that thing?

Every parent should do their best in regard to raising their children to be healthy in all areas. The rest is up to the child themselves.

It bothers me that people feel free to point and say, ahh THIS is what caused the OTD, THAT is what caused the overdose and so on.

We need Moshiach urgently! Amen

amother

Yellow

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 12:22 pm

My great uncle went OTD because he didn't have enough food to eat. That's what he told me (he did not go through the Holocaust but his family was very poor).

My uncle claims he went OTD for intellectual reasons but he had a pretty bad childhood so not sure if he's being honest with himself.

I know someone who went off because he was abused. Another person because he had learning disabilities and felt like a failure on the yeshiva system. Another went OTD just because. Loving mother and father, everything else was good. But there may have been an underlying trauma that I don't know about.

amother

Oak

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 12:25 pm

I wouldn't consider myself OTD, but I'm very skeptical about everything. I realize that our core beliefs cannot be PROVEN true. The questions I and many others have are very direct and straightforward, and the answers are very shaky. Most things about religion seems to be comforting to society to the extent that I realize that if I were to make up a religion, these would be the exact components I'd include in it. examples would be:

1. God loves you.
2. Everything that happens to you is for the good. Even disease, depression, and suffering. You just don't understand.
3. Don't worry about dying. This world is just a tiny hallway to the eternal next world which is gonna be awesome. There will be no suffering there and everything will make sense.
4. At some point you and your loved ones will be revived and come back to life again.

All religions (I think) make some of these claims. They are comforting and help people in hard and difficult times. That's why people -in any religion- are generally happier. They are more excepting of anything that comes their way because they accept that it's all part of gods master plan which is not understandable to us.

The stakes of believing vs abandoning religion are as high as possible. If you believe and follow the rules, you will go to olam habba. If you choose the other way you will just die and not receive the eternal endless reward. I'm not even mentioning gehenim. I'm not saying I don't believe it, I'm just not sure. The stakes are to high (which might be the strategy) that's it's not worth getting out of line. This component is common in all religions- very high stakes. Eternal incredible reward for those that follow, and terrible punishment otherwise.

amother

Seagreen

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 12:40 pm

Oftentimes, it’s because they aren’t given a reason to believe and aren’t given a reason to stay.

You can easily say “they don’t believe”. But what don’t they believe? For many FFB’s, they never heard the real truth. Not that they were fed lies. But when something is true, you sense it. Truth is peace. So when they don’t believe, it’s not that they disbelieve. But they were never shown the truth in the first place.

Now many FFB’s like that will still stay because they are given reason to stay. Whether it’s a loving family, community support, even fear of leaving.

But for those who were never given a reason to believe or reason to stay, it’s not about rebelling and running/going “off”. It’s simply no longer “walking the walk and talking the talk” because there’s no compelling reason.

This has been my experience and well as my perception when understanding others.

I’m not OTD but I’m not as RW as my parents. People assume it’s because I’m “acting out in pain”. They’ll even point to my difficult childhood as proof. Now I don’t deny that I’ve been through hell. But I was never one to rebel. And I’ve been through therapy and lots of growth. I harbor no hate or ill will. The lifestyle my parents live doesn’t speak truth to me. I likely would’ve ended up otd but I learned a lot on my own because I need the truth. And truth makes sense, so I’d keep searching until I sensed truth. But I’m not like my parents because, as I said, their lifestyle isn’t truth to me, and my second point - I have no reason to be like them because I have no family unit or community to stick it out for.

So I found my own way and am at peace. And although people to my face tell me that no one judges me - they’re lying. Let’s be honest. We all know it.

amother

Seagreen

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 12:56 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

Seagreen, what is keeping those people from studying and finding out the truth for themselves? There is one truth and multiple ways to get to that.
It's ok that one lifestyle appeals rather than another. I'm speaking of course all in the realm of halacha.

I’m very deep and intellectual and have a great need for truth. I knew there must be a God because I’ve tried many different reasonings and a Godless world just didn’t make any sense. I did have my doubts with Judaism though.

But not everyone is the intellectual type. Not everyone has a deep need for real truth. They may like to know the truth, but though they may not know where to find it, they know it’s not Judaism. Because for them, the Judaism they know isn’t truth. So that already gets one thing off their list. And finding the truth isn’t the priority on their list.

amother

Oak

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 12:57 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

[u]

Jews make up a tiny small percentage of religious people in the world. In many of those other religious people can also "sense it" and can "just feel" that there religion is true. In fairness had you been born in India you'd probably be a Buddhist or a Hindu. It was only because of the randomness of our births that we are religious jews. Of course you can answer something about our neshamos chose this or something, but that would obviously not be provable and an example of a firect question and a shaky answer.

amother

Seagreen

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 1:04 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

I thought about that too. But many religions can have truths to them. Just because Je-sus wasn’t the messiah, doesn’t mean all of C.hristianity’s values lack truth. And for them, their lifestyle can be a lifestyle of truth.

What I meant about truth of Judaism for FFB’s is more related to toras Moshe m’sinai, rather than simply believing in God (which other religions have as well). Why should people believe it’s true that God gave the Torah? They need compelling reason to believe that. They need compelling reason to follow the (Judaic) path of their parents, and to see that Judaism is the true path for them, even if other religions have some truth to them.