Family has a say in baby names?

amother

Bronze

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 8:43 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Your age is showing, deary. How young are you? I agree that pregnancy announcement is not important but names are. They are a continuation in a chain. It’s not narcissistic to want a remembrance and continuation of family.
But no fighting please. It should be a time of simcha. So suggest and request and them leave the couple alone.

Everyone can want what they want, but if you read posts people don't want to have kids, or have family at their simcha because of this. So clearly parents are not just wanting something and being respectful about it. That is narcissistic to think your wants matter enough to hurt your child. I'm sure every child has a very valid reason why they would not want to use that name. Do you really think the next generation just doesn't want to remember previous ones for the fun of it?

amother

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 8:54 pm

I’m sorry that people have similar experiences to me because it’s so painful, but I appreciate the perspectives; makes me feel less alone.

It’s not so much communal pressure for me as much as family pressure. My son was named for my deceased grandfather at the time and my husbands grandfather. At the time, we did not have close female relatives who had passed away and as much as I am a skeptic, I truly did experience a form of ruach hakodesh when naming my daughter the absolute perfect name. I wanted to name for the grandfathers because both were strong, Holocaust survivors with a great hashkafa that I admire and would want those traits to be passed to my son.

My maternal grandparents passed away this past year, within a few months of each other. My grandmother was nice to me, but very passive aggressive and not nice to many of my cousins. She would gossip about them to me. She had a strong Jewish identity but wasn’t religious. I did love her, and we got along but I would not consider her (at least hashkafic or cosmically) a role model. My grandfather has always been complex, moody and kind of mean. When he was on his deathbed, he refused to speak to any of his grandchildren and called my mother an idiot despite her caring for him alone for 8 weeks straight. He really isn’t someone I’d want to commemorate with a name. This is all besides for the fact that I personally don’t like their Hebrew names.

And just to reiterate my own family drama (spot a pattern?) my mother called me a selfish b-itch for hiring a baby nurse for my jaundiced and malnourished twins and having her stay with them in my house while putting my parents up at a neighbor for the joint shalom zachor/kiddush. She showed up when I was in labor even though I specifically asked that nobody come. I was on my feet cooking for her specialty diet 4 days postpartum to avoid arguments and judgements. She refused to participate in the bris because she was throwing a fit and then got mad that she’s not in any pictures.

I recognize this is a far deeper issue than just the names. I’ve gotten better at distancing from them but I’m really struggling with the desire to have another child and the fear of the drama that it absolutely will bring. I have other reasons why I am nervous to aim for kid 3, but this fear of having so much control taken from me and ruining yet another simcha makes it hard to see the joy in bringing another life into this world and highlights all of the cons.

The rav card is a good one to play, but we’ve never played the “shaila” card before so don’t know how it will play out.

Sorry for the megillah but the responses and sensitivity and understanding of this make me feel so much less alone and I truly appreciate it.

amother

Copper

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Wow these responses are so validating!

Yeah, I had no idea how bad it would be last time around (was my first kids) and the kiddush and bris and everything were an absolute disaster. I posted on here when it happened, it was very very unhealthy and that drama is unfortunately a factor in my decision for kid 3. Last time we shared at around 10 weeks because it was the first grandchildren on my side, but honestly I want to keep it secret (iyh once it happens) as long as I can without being truly awful. I know logically I shouldn’t let others dictate my life, but it really stresses me out — which is counterproductive to trying to conceive!

Omg! I thought it was u when I saw your OP! I remember your posts and sending you so many hugs! Your incredible and have so much strength! Remember that!
I'll say now what I said then. You have to do what's best for you.
Keep the pregnancy a secret for as long as you need to.
Don't say the name before you actually name it. Even under pressure. You can do it.
Be respectful and confirm. Rinse and repeat.
Live your life for you!
You can do this!

(I remember your posts Because I remember that hat you posted that my advice was helpful, not because there are so few of us dealing with this that it makes us identifiable)

amother

Jade

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:05 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

I agree that it should not be the cause of strife and hurt. I also understand that there are situations where a name is not wanted. But on the whole there seems to be a disconnect from the younger generation today. Sometimes the reason is simply “because I want and that’s it”. I very willingly gave a name after a great aunt that I loved. My mother asked if I would, my dh said sure why should I davka go looking for something else? Fyi I am a young very early fifties ( just in case you thought I belong to the really old bubbies)grandmother.
And I still think people don’t understand the meaning of the word narcissistic and are misusing it.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:09 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

I think you are missing the point. People don't want to name after them because they did not love them. If they did why would anyone fight it? The difference is we stand up for ourselves unlike our parents that named names they hated ( or after people they didn't like/respect ) because they felt they had no choice. I haven't seen anyone misuse the word narcissistic.

amother

Jade

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Ok. You just changed the game. Do not tell anyone when you are expecting. And DO NOT discuss whatsoever choices of names. And if they don’t come for a simcha or throw hissy fits it is THEIR loss.
This is what I keep saying- while it is important, there are times when you don’t want to give names and don’t want drama. Your sanity and health is more important.
Follow the advice of a rav- that’s it and nothing more.

nechamashifra

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:20 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

The child will be a continuation in the chain no matter what name it ends up with and grandparents are remembered regardless.
No it's not narcissistic to want a grandchild named a certain name, it's narcissistic to pressure/manipulate/guilt trip one's children to get what you want. We have kids to give them life, not to serve our own needs and wants.

amother

Lime

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:25 pm

I don't know. The whole point is that OP wants to enjoy the bris/kiddush this time around. How can she enjoy if her mother is there pitching a fit? I would rather get all the drama done with well before the baby is born and then honestly say that she can decide if she wants to be there or not but all guests have to be smiling.

I would have a pit in my stomach the whole pregnancy otherwise. I vote, rip off the bandaid and let your mother sulk for a while in the privacy of her home. By the time the birth comes she will be over it or quite frankly, she won't be invited.

ETA: I am a (young) grandmother so this all not from the younger generation's perspective.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:33 pm

Im kind of surprised so many people are saying,
you want to name a kid? then you give birth to one. (when clearly a grandparent cannot give birth anymore )
You had your chance too bad
you already had your kids and named them now its my turn

In most situations a person cannot name after their own parents because their parents are still ALIVE when they gave birth to their kids. They get older, their parents pass away they have a deep need to see a child named after their parents but they cannot have any more kids.! It is natural to want to see a grandchild with the names of their parents. It gives them comfort.
Im surprised hardly anyone here mentioned that they feel a deep sense of joy in being able to provide their parents with this small piece of comfort, and they hope that one day their children will do the same for them!!
barring abusive situations-Im NOT talking about that. Im talking about in a regular healthy family where you love your parents- wouldnt you want your own kids to one day name their kids after your parents that you love?

I agree with the poster that said that there is a lot of ME in this generation. Its all about me. I want it therefore Im going to do it. it seems very selfish. and I wonder what will happen when all these young parents grow up and become grandparents and suddenly have a deep need to name after your now gone relatives. and your young snippy daughter in law simply says too bad in your face as well.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:45 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Im kind of surprised so many people are saying,
you want to name a kid? then you give birth to one. (when clearly a grandparent cannot give birth anymore )
You had your chance too bad
you already had your kids and named them now its my turn

In most situations a person cannot name after their own parents because their parents are still ALIVE when they gave birth to their kids. They get older, their parents pass away they have a deep need to see a child named after their parents but they cannot have any more kids.! It is natural to want to see a grandchild with the names of their parents. It gives them comfort.
Im surprised hardly anyone here mentioned that they feel a deep sense of joy in being able to provide their parents with this small piece of comfort, and they hope that one day their children will do the same for them!!
barring abusive situations-Im NOT talking about that. Im talking about in a regular healthy
family where you love your parents- wouldnt you want your own kids to one day name their kids after your parents that you love?

I agree with the poster that said that there is a lot of ME in this generation. Its all about me. I want it therefore Im going to do it. it seems very selfish. and I wonder what will happen when all these young parents grow up and become grandparents and suddenly have a deep need to name after your now gone relatives. and your young snippy daughter in law simply says too bad in your face as well.

But that's it, it's because people don't have healthy families and therefore don't want to name after those people. I think people are not realizing how many families are not stable and healthy. If you read how the parents react you can see that it's not normal to act that way.

amother

Tan

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:46 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Two points:
1 - You think all of the younger generation is shallow? They are quite well aware of the meaning behind it all. If they choose not to pass on a name, it's often for very valid reasons. Reasons they may or may not want to divulge

2 - If it states that the parents, specifically the mother, should name the child. The mother receives the ruach kodesh or instinct what name fits the child. Do you believe that this is incorrect an we should just disregard it and have the grandparents be the one to choose a name based on their personal needs?

amother

Denim

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 9:47 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

It is natural to WANT.
It is NOT natural to ask, or worse, expect.

I named my daughter after my grandmother. Not the first one I had, but when it was the right name at the right time.

I would rather my children not name after me than have them do so resentfully.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 10:00 pm

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

but that's the point. it shouldn't have to be done resentfully.

It is not natural to ask? uh It is very natural to ask. what is not ok is to create a fight and ruin the simcha no. but very very normal to ask. the answer will either be yes or no and at that point the grandparents accept whatever their kids decide.
you know how many parents are afraid to even ask because they know their kids will throw a royal fit? THAT is what is not natural IMO.
Its like parents are afraid of their kids these days instead of the other way around. but I guess I shouldnt be surprised. Parents are also afraid of their 8 and 10 year olds.

amother

Jade

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 10:04 pm

nechamashifra wrote:

Scene1: child asks “ who was I named after?”
Parent answers “ no one, we just chose a random name”
Child: oh
Scene 2: child- who was I named after?
Parent- great grandfather so and so
Child- where did he live? Did you know him?
Parent gives info and discussion continues
Child- do you have pics?
Parent- yes, here
I know who I was named after. What their middos were what was special about them.
We all agree that if the name brings negativity with it then leave it alone. But naming after family members is important and not always this horrible thing that many are saying.

amother

Tan

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 10:04 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Why do you need to ask? You don't think your children are aware that their grandparent's name is one of the contenders on their list?

amother

Bronze

Mon, Oct 28 2019, 10:10 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Ummm no. My kids are not named after grandparents but there is a very specific reason I chose each name and I am proud to share the reasoning with them. Do you think people just pull names out of a hat? My kids are very proud of their names and who cares if it doesn't come with a picture?