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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
Aqua
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 Fri, Nov 01 2019, 9:47 am
| Squishy wrote: | Actually political correctness should be called virtue signaling at their victims' expense or just hypocrites. The posters who come on here dictating how others offend say American Indians because of their Purim costumes aren't offended. They are controlling. There aren't any American Indians on here to be offended. But how many liberals do we see in blackface or offering to do the moonwalk? (That's after discussing after birth abortions or murder. )
Even Obama made a recent speech saying, what we already knew, that this nonsense has gone too far.
The term g○y is not used in my community as the equivalent of the N word. It is a non- offensive way to say gentile. If people want to get offended, they will find something to get offended about.
I get offended by controlling dictating people who are often don't have original ideas themselves. |
Well, this is clearly not true, because you’re Chassidish and live in Monsey, and I grew up in Monsey. And “[non jew]” is 1000000% not a “neutral” world in the slightest.
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amother
Floralwhite
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:28 am
| Squishy wrote: | Actually political correctness should be called virtue signaling at their victims' expense or just hypocrites. The posters who come on here dictating how others offend say American Indians because of their Purim costumes aren't offended. They are controlling. There aren't any American Indians on here to be offended. But how many liberals do we see in blackface or offering to do the moonwalk? (That's after discussing after birth abortions or murder. )
Even Obama made a recent speech saying, what we already knew, that this nonsense has gone too far.
The term g○y is not used in my community as the equivalent of the N word. It is a non- offensive way to say gentile. If people want to get offended, they will find something to get offended about.
I get offended by controlling dictating people who are often don't have original ideas themselves. |
People don't dress in American Indian customs and parade around in the virtual imamother world.
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JoyInTheMorning
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:36 am
First, we should call people what they call themselves. So, Native Americans for what we used to call American Indians, Latinos/Latinas, etc. I don't really see why you need a label to describe people who are not Jewish. Describe them by what they are, not by what they are not. For example, "Catholics celebrate Saint Patrick's Day." By that standard, non-Jewish is not an ideal thing to say, though certainly better than terms that we all know have often been used in a derogatory manner.
Second, the less we use divisive talk, the better. Why even say something like "Non-Jews eat pork; we only eat mammals that have split hooves and chew their cuds?" Why not just say "Observant Jews only eat mammals that have split hooves and chew their cuds"? (If you want you can go on and say, "Other religions also have food restrictions. All Jainists are vegetarians, and many Hindus are too." But is that usually even necessary?)
Third, I totally sin regarding the "Good Shabbos" thing. I never want to assume -- people with what appear to be totally Jewish names or wearing Magen David necklaces might not be Jewish -- and I don't want to differentiate, so I tend not to say Good Shabbos or Shabbat Shalom or Chag Sameach or whatever unless it is the actual day. In shul, I feel totally appropriate saying Good Shabbos or Shabbat Shalom or Chag Sameach. Anyway, saying Good Shabbos before Shabbos creeps me out. When do we start? Friday afternoon? Friday morning? Thursday? Wednesday, if you're in a once-a-week class? I once had a teacher who taught a weekly class and would say Good Shabbos on Monday. That's when I adopted my Bo Bayom practice.
(This also saves me from the whole Happy Holidays / Merry Christ-mas issue. Whom do I see on Christm-as or New Year's? Nobody, except for people who don't celebrate it. The next day, as far as I'm concerned, I'm exempt. Fortunately no one I know says Happy Fourth of July, or Happy Labor Day, or Meaningful Memorial Day, or whatever. I sometimes make an exception on Wednesday afternoon before Thanksgiving and say "Have a good Thanksgiving," but otherwise I'm just a crusty old curmudgeon in this respect.)
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33055
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:39 am
| amother [ Aqua ] wrote: | | Well, this is clearly not true, because you’re Chassidish and live in Monsey, and I grew up in Monsey. And “[non jew]” is 1000000% not a “neutral” world in the slightest. |
I'm Chasidish? When did this happen? And how come I wasn't told?
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JoyInTheMorning
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:49 am
| Squishy wrote: | | I'm Chasidish? When did this happen? And how come I wasn't told? |
LOL. I also thought you were Chassidish, actually Chassidish-lite.
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PinkFridge
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:52 am
| marvelous wrote: | | Not so relevant, but [non jew] does not really meant gentile, or non-Jew. The definition of [non jew] is nation, used in the context when referring to ourselves as Yidden vs g0yim - the other nations. And it is Lashon Hakodesh, not yiddish. |
And you can come up with many examples of that, e.g. [non jew] echad ba'aretz in Shabbos mincha.
But I'll see you k'g0yei ha'aratzos in Aleinu. And Tehllim 117. These uses aren't derogatory, just factual. But as I would tell my kids, leave all the manners and frumkeit and nicety aside: it's just dangerous to use certain words in certain places because if heard by the wrong people they will be perceived as derogatory.
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PinkFridge
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:55 am
| sequoia wrote: |
In many places in Europe, Russia, South Africa, and South America, everyone goes to an Orthodox shul (when they do), so that alone would not make you Orthodox. |
But I'd still say Good Shabbos.
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PinkFridge
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:56 am
| nchr wrote: | | Right. I remember a Christian co worker was at my family's Chassidishe tenoyim when she overheard my cousin say, "Jews do this..." in regard to some minhag. The coworker was flabbergasted as she had be taught never to say the word "Jew" just like you wouldn't use the K or N word... |
Wow. Evidently Daniel Pearl Hy"D never heard that.
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PinkFridge
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 10:58 am
| thunderstorm wrote: | Same.
I have a memory of being a six year old and my father’s non Jewish parents were visiting. He served them breakfast and I watched my grandfather bite into a slice of bread. And ever so innocently and inquisitively asked “Grandpa, why didn’t you wash and make a bracha? It’s because you are a [gentile], right?” My parents didn’t know where to put themselves. |
I could see how flummoxing this would be. I guess that if I weren't flummoxed I'd say, yes, but he's still my father/my FIL/your gf so we treat him with respect.
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urban gypsy
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:02 am
| Squishy wrote: | | Some orthodox women dress in pants, don't cover their heads, wear shirts above their elbows and below their collar bone. I would like to know they are orthodox, so I say good Shabbos rather than have a nice weekend. |
You only wish Good Shabbos to Orthodox Jews ???????
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urban gypsy
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:04 am
| singleagain wrote: | | I recently got an email from someone asking for one of my co-workers numbers. I either hope that he really thinks if it as innocent. Or that it was a typo and he meant to ask for the "guy's number" |
This is hilarious!!!! NEEDS to be a scene in a film!!!! 
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JoyInTheMorning
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:06 am
| Squishy wrote: | Actually political correctness should be called virtue signaling at their victims' expense or just hypocrites. The posters who come on here dictating how others offend say American Indians because of their Purim costumes aren't offended. They are controlling. There aren't any American Indians on here to be offended. But how many liberals do we see in blackface or offering to do the moonwalk? (That's after discussing after birth abortions or murder. )
Even Obama made a recent speech saying, what we already knew, that this nonsense has gone too far.
The term g○y is not used in my community as the equivalent of the N word. It is a non- offensive way to say gentile. If people want to get offended, they will find something to get offended about.
I get offended by controlling dictating people who are often don't have original ideas themselves. |
Regarding the bolded:
1. I'm not offended if someone uses the term "American Indian" instead of "Native American," but I don't want other people to feel offended. That's what I would advocate (not dictate, but advocate) for people using the terms that groups want to be called.
2. There are probably no Native Americans on imamother, but one never knows. People do convert.
3. You ask how many people do we know doing blackface or moonwalking? On imamother, I'm guessing that it's small. In fact, I've never seen it on imamother. So your comparison of blackfacers on imamother to Native Americans on imamothers strikes me as odd.
That said, I agree that the blackface controversy seems to have run amok. I've never done blackface. I've always found blackface performances in old movies to be cringeworthy, but didn't think more about it. I think that most people who did blackface in their youth never thought about it. I think that once we find out that it's an offensive practice, it makes sense to stop it, but I don't understand the need to punish those who did it in their youth before they knew it was offensive. I think also that there should be a distinction between doing blackface and darkening one's skin to play Othello. (After all, when I took acting classes and worked on a monologue of Joan of Arc from Shaw's Saint Joan, I got yelled at for doing it in a skirt and with my hair down over my shoulders. If you're supposed to look the part, I don't see what's wrong with altering oneself with makeup, etc., the same as I was supposed to put on different clothing / put up my hair to be Joan of Arc.)
4. I have no idea how abortions and murder fit into this conversation, but I think you are swallowing the Kool Aid handed out by Christian-based media. There is no such thing as after-birth abortion. Read the laws.
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JoyInTheMorning
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:09 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | | But I'd still say Good Shabbos. |
Well, I would too, but only on Shabbos.
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amother
Khaki
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:17 am
In my world [non jew] is not meant derogatory at all, just a word we use instead of the word gentile. We have some Yiddish words mixed into our English and this is one of them. (Like yuntiff instead of holiday..)
I only discovered here on imamother that people are offended by this.
Can a word be offensive if the person using it is not even aware it’s offensive?
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JoyInTheMorning
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:24 am
| amother [ Khaki ] wrote: | In my world [non jew] is not meant derogatory at all, just a word we use instead of the word gentile. We have some Yiddish words mixed into our English and this is one of them. (Like yuntiff instead of holiday..)
I only discovered here on imamother that people are offended by this.
Can a word be offensive if the person using it is not even aware it’s offensive? |
Of course!
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nchr
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:43 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | | Wow. Evidently Daniel Pearl Hy"D never heard that. |
Sorry, I don't understand this comment. Mind elaborating?
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PinkFridge
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:45 am
| JoyInTheMorning wrote: | | Well, I would too, but only on Shabbos. |
I also had in mind an earlier post, I won't go there now.
I also won't talk about early good Shabbos greetings. I have no problem with it but I respect your feelings.
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amother
Aqua
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:47 am
| Squishy wrote: | | I'm Chasidish? When did this happen? And how come I wasn't told? |
Well, you’ve mentioned you live in Airmont in Monsey so if you’re straight-out Chassidish, you’re either Chassidish-adjacent, heimish or Chareidi.
Whatever you want to call yourself, I grew up in that community until I got married and “[non jew]” was most definitely not used innocently. Ah, the relish with which people would say “ugh, look at that [non jew]” or “that’s so g0yish” - please. That’s exactly why it’s offensive.
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PinkFridge
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 11:53 am
| nchr wrote: | | Sorry, I don't understand this comment. Mind elaborating? |
Daniel Pearl was a journalist who was brutally murdered and his last words were, "I am a Jew and my father was Jew." (I don't know if he read a script or if he said it on his own, but as I said, Hy"d.)
That's what I intended. In googling to check my recollection, some sources say he said "I am a Jew," others say, "I am Jewish." I guess it was the latter because his father wrote a book:
https://www.amazon.com/Am-Jewi.....6C20S
But, while googling "I am a Jew" I found this:
https://www.aish.com/sp/so/Dus......html
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33055
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Fri, Nov 01 2019, 12:00 pm
| amother [ Aqua ] wrote: | Well, you’ve mentioned you live in Airmont in Monsey so if you’re straight-out Chassidish, you’re either Chassidish-adjacent, heimish or Chareidi.
Whatever you want to call yourself, I grew up in that community until I got married and “[non jew]” was most definitely not used innocently. Ah, the relish with which people would say “ugh, look at that [non jew]” or “that’s so g0yish” - please. That’s exactly why it’s offensive. |
What's chassidish-adjacent ? Does mean that Chassidish people live on adjoining property to me? Is Chassidish contagious? Should I be worried?
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