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S/O Vitamin K Black Box
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, Nov 03 2019, 10:56 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
Gotta love how everyone here unanimously decided it had to have been gbs and couldn't have been vit k. With nothing to back any of this.


I didn't want to post more than a hug on a post as tragic as that one, so I started a spinoff. Here are my thoughts:
Well, when you hear that a mom had untreated GBS, that's where your mind jumps. How many doctors are spreading info about the black box on the vit K shot?

I wonder if anyone bothered looking it up, besides for OP.
I tried pasting an image, but it didn't work. If anyone bothers following this link, you'll notice that side effects include FATALITIES, CARDIAC ARREST (which often remains undetected in newborns if no autopsy is done) and more wonderful stuff.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov.....l.pdf
I don't see why OP has to suspect GBS as the culprit OVER Vit. K. Both are suspect. I didn't do enough research on stats to know which is a more likely cause, but what we may all know is that both factors were present and are therefore suspect.
If anyone has good studies that show how each one plays out, feel free to enlighten us.
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amother




Apricot


Post  Sun, Nov 03 2019, 11:02 pm
It's interesting that you chose to post that link, which actually makes a very strong case for the safety of the vitamin k shot. Did you read the entire article?
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, Nov 03 2019, 11:08 pm
I actually chose the first link I saw as I'm not on a political campaign to make a point. I just want ppl to see the black box. Yes, I saw the slant of the article, including the ridiculous car wreck theory. Despite that, the insert maintains that fatalities and cardiac arrest can result from vit K shot.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Nov 03 2019, 11:25 pm
The mother had tested positive for GBS. That meant that there was a 1/200 chance that her baby would become very sick, and without rapid detection and treatment, likely to die. In contrast, the risks of Vitamin K injections are much, much rarer. The CDC says that there has been only one case of an allergic reaction (presumably anaphylactic) out of the many tens of millions of children who have received the injections.

Moreover: we know the mechanism that causes GBS to cause sickness and death in small infants. What dangerous causal mechanism could be triggered by the Vitamin K shot?
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amother




OP


Post  Sun, Nov 03 2019, 11:45 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
The mother had tested positive for GBS. That meant that there was a 1/200 chance that her baby would become very sick, and without rapid detection and treatment, likely to die. In contrast, the risks of Vitamin K injections are much, much rarer. The CDC says that there has been only one case of an allergic reaction (presumably anaphylactic) out of the many tens of millions of children who have received the injections.

Moreover: we know the mechanism that causes GBS to cause sickness and death in small infants. What dangerous causal mechanism could be triggered by the Vitamin K shot?

There was a 1/200 chance her baby would get GBS; not die. Yes, even newborns can fight it on their own.
On the other hand, here's what the FDA has on record for vit. K:
"For the 217 patients with reactions reported due to vitamin K via a non-intravenous route of administration, 38 patients had reactions meeting the definition of anaphylactoid (18 %), with 1 fatality (3 %) attributed to the drug."
So that's 1 SURE fatality in 217, not just a chance at fatality.
I am not advising skipping the antibiotics for GBS (nor am I advising taking it). I honestly never had GBS and therefore never studied it, but if you look around long enough you'll see that both GBS AND vit. K can be fatal.
It may also be the combination of both increases the risk of fatality.
And, antibiotics does NOT guarantee that the GBS won't transfer to baby. Maybe all babies of mothers with GBS should have the vit. K delayed, since it is (admitted to by conventional medicine)to prevent a very, very rare disease?
No, chas v'shalom a baby of a few hours old with either GBS, or with GBS AND on antibiotics shouldn't get vit, K. Most responsible docs don't give a child that isn't in perfect health a vaccine, but the holy vit K, for a newborn baby, for a rare complication like a car wreck on teh way home from the hospital...This is a must!
Whatever, I'm signing off.
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amother




Dodgerblue


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 5:20 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
There was a 1/200 chance her baby would get GBS; not die. Yes, even newborns can fight it on their own.
On the other hand, here's what the FDA has on record for vit. K:
"For the 217 patients with reactions reported due to vitamin K via a non-intravenous route of administration, 38 patients had reactions meeting the definition of anaphylactoid (18 %), with 1 fatality (3 %) attributed to the drug."
So that's 1 SURE fatality in 217, not just a chance at fatality.
I am not advising skipping the antibiotics for GBS (nor am I advising taking it). I honestly never had GBS and therefore never studied it, but if you look around long enough you'll see that both GBS AND vit. K can be fatal.
It may also be the combination of both increases the risk of fatality.
And, antibiotics does NOT guarantee that the GBS won't transfer to baby. Maybe all babies of mothers with GBS should have the vit. K delayed, since it is (admitted to by conventional medicine)to prevent a very, very rare disease?
No, chas v'shalom a baby of a few hours old with either GBS, or with GBS AND on antibiotics shouldn't get vit, K. Most responsible docs don't give a child that isn't in perfect health a vaccine, but the holy vit K, for a newborn baby, for a rare complication like a car wreck on teh way home from the hospital...This is a must!
Whatever, I'm signing off.



Your math on chance of fatality for vit k is very wrong: 1 out of 217 that have a reaction die, but majority of babies have no reaction. That was 217 out of probably million of babies had any reaction at all.

And a kid can be allergic to anything. Should we not feed any kids peanuts? Hey maybe all mothers should be on a dairy free diet because of the kids allergic to milk protein, and of course any baby on formula needs to be on hypoallergenic formula. We can’t cushion kids from every allergy indefinitely.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 6:39 am
Why is this under this forum? Vitamin K is not a vaccine.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 6:51 am
nchr wrote:
Why is this under this forum? Vitamin K is not a vaccine.


It isn't a vaccine to you or me but if big pharma profits from it, they consider it a vaccine. It's kind of like comparing Orthodox Judaism to Reform; practically a different religion.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 6:51 am
Delete double post

I have been double posting a lot lately; probably due to the flu shot Very Happy
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amother




Apricot


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 7:41 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
Your math on chance of fatality for vit k is very wrong: 1 out of 217 that have a reaction die, but majority of babies have no reaction. That was 217 out of probably million of babies had any reaction at all.

And a kid can be allergic to anything. Should we not feed any kids peanuts? Hey maybe all mothers should be on a dairy free diet because of the kids allergic to milk protein, and of course any baby on formula needs to be on hypoallergenic formula. We can’t cushion kids from every allergy indefinitely.


Yes, this is correct. There is one known fatality of a newborn from a severe allergic reaction to the vit k shot in the world. Despite millions of babies receiving the shot. It is that rare. Unfortunately, there are many known fatalities of newborns from GBS. Of course many parents refuse autopsies, and not always can the infants symptoms give enough information as to the cause of death. But this is the known information that we have today, so this is what we work with.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 7:56 am
I gave some babies vitamin k shot some didn't get. All seemed ok I just asked a friend of mine she said the same This friend of mine kept miscarrying, or going in going into early labor. She thought she had fertility issues. After much trial and error it turns out that her gbs was causing it. She is now tested since beginning months by each pregnancy and is given antibiotics when tested positive. She also takes extra herbs and vitamins which works only sometimes because she hate being on strong antibiotics for so long, shes on in for practically 9 months HOWEVER there was a correlation to her gbs and her problems and since realizing it, testing each month and taking antibiotics she has health full term babies. She originally thought her drs were over reacting she skipped on the medication but than the evidence became clear.
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 10:42 am
How many years is this vitamin mandatory. Because I remember both the hepatitis b shot and this being strongly encouraged but optional?
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amother




Saddlebrown


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 10:45 am
southernbubby wrote:
It isn't a vaccine to you or me but if big pharma profits from it, they consider it a vaccine. It's kind of like comparing Orthodox Judaism to Reform; practically a different religion.


Big Pharma profits from all the pharmaceuticals they sell. That doesn't make them all vaccines.
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amother




Saddlebrown


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 11:07 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I didn't want to post more than a hug on a post as tragic as that one, so I started a spinoff. Here are my thoughts:
Well, when you hear that a mom had untreated GBS, that's where your mind jumps. How many doctors are spreading info about the black box on the vit K shot?

I wonder if anyone bothered looking it up, besides for OP.
I tried pasting an image, but it didn't work. If anyone bothers following this link, you'll notice that side effects include FATALITIES, CARDIAC ARREST (which often remains undetected in newborns if no autopsy is done) and more wonderful stuff.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov.....l.pdf
I don't see why OP has to suspect GBS as the culprit OVER Vit. K. Both are suspect. I didn't do enough research on stats to know which is a more likely cause, but what we may all know is that both factors were present and are therefore suspect.
If anyone has good studies that show how each one plays out, feel free to enlighten us.


When trying to solve a problem - you rule out the most obvious solution first.
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nchr




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 04 2019, 1:49 pm
amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:
How many years is this vitamin mandatory. Because I remember both the hepatitis b shot and this being strongly encouraged but optional?


The injection has been offered since the early 1960s.
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ahfc




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Nov 06 2019, 9:53 am
For anyone interested in actual facts regarding the safety of vitamin k in newborns, please see this very detailed post:
https://scienceofmom.com/2015/.....safe/
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:08 am
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
Big Pharma profits from all the pharmaceuticals they sell. That doesn't make them all vaccines.


Exactly! What I am trying to say is that some anti-vaxers subscribe to a line of thinking that big pharma wastes no time injecting the population with chemicals that are guaranteed to create a lifetime of illness and dependency on big pharma products and that they are laughing all the way to the bank but don't use the products themselves. They may have plenty of their own overpriced, ineffective, and dangerous products marketed as "natural".
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amother




Indigo


Post  Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:30 am
I wonder if babies are deficient in vitamin k these days because of microbiome dysbiosis. The bacteria in our guts are how we make vit k. And mothers pass on their flora to their babies... And instead of having to rely on risky injections or risk dangerous bleeding, we could treat this at the root by working on our flora throughout pregnancy.
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amother




Apricot


Post  Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:50 am
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
I wonder if babies are deficient in vitamin k these days because of microbiome dysbiosis. The bacteria in our guts are how we make vit k. And mothers pass on their flora to their babies... And instead of having to rely on risky injections or risk dangerous bleeding, we could treat this at the root by working on our flora throughout pregnancy.


Even assuming your theory is correct. How would anyone determine whether efforts were sufficient? How would anyone determine whether but k is being transferred adequately through the placenta?

The injection is actually not risky. It is very low risk.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Wed, Nov 06 2019, 10:56 am
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
Even assuming your theory is correct. How would anyone determine whether efforts were sufficient? How would anyone determine whether but k is being transferred adequately through the placenta?

The injection is actually not risky. It is very low risk.
a pharmaceutical with a black box warning is by definition not low risk.

The vitamin k wouldn't have to cross the placenta, the micorbiota in baby's gut would be making it for baby.

There are ways of measuring vit k levels, clotting factors, etc.

The point wasn't me telling mothers to diy, just musing at how the current medical model always seeks to intervene artificially by introducing pharmaceuticals instead of getting down to the root and correcting that way. Because that's not where the money is Sad

I hope things change one day. Sooner rather than later. Because we are not headed down a good path.
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