S/O Vitamin K Black Box

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 9:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There are a whole lot of them.
They don't have the funding to fight City Hall, and are instead making the best of our situation, channeling our efforts where we think it counts most. Do you know how much the marketing efforts, ads, transportation, robo calls, live calls, etc. cost in the frum community for this week's elections? Frum anti vaxxers don't have that money to throw down the drain in a liberal state.
There are PLENTY of secular ppl all over NY, however, who are utilizing social media, rallies, protests, etc. for something similar to what you suggested.

I knew about the massive efforts of secular people but there were no letters to the editor, flyers coming home from school, WhatsApp messages, or any free ways to get the message out in the frum community.

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 9:56 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Only proves effectiveness of government and fake news propaganda. Why aren't these parents afraid to let their children ride in cars which is a million times more likely to kill a child than measles?

Why aren't these parents concerned that government lets children with AIDS and Heptatis attend school?

A Child with Hepatitis can attend school but a healthy child without Hepatitis B vaccine Cannot. Insanity.

So even if we could agree that some vaccines are for basically innocuous diseases, even though measles used to cause tens of thousands of hospitalizations each year, some VPDs are far more disastrous but anti-vaxers would rather see kids blinded by rubella or lose all of their limbs from meningitis. Because it is all or nothing anti-vaxers say it should be none and Albany says it should be all.

#BestBubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 9:59 am

southernbubby wrote:

Absolutely FALSE. No Anti-Vaxxers are demanding all vaccines be Banned.

All we want is FREEDOM to decide to vax or not. And if vax - which vaccines and
at what age to give it. You know, HUMAN RIGHTS like it says in the Nuremburg Codes.

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:02 am

#BestBubby wrote:

It is referring to Measles, not Rubella.

My nephew became severely autistic, lives with Chronic Pain and allergies every day of his life after getting 7 vaccines in one day right after recovering from ear infection.
And there are Thousands of parents who said their children became chronically ill and regressed into autism after vaccination!

I do agree that there should be a limit on how much is given at one time and only to healthy children because even if the cause of autism is something unrelated to vaccines, the doctor will be considered careless by anyone who hears about it.

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:07 am

#BestBubby wrote:

So basically non vaccinated people are depending on the herd immunity that the rest of us took risks to achieve and you want us risk takers to allow your kids in our schools to enjoy the healthy environment that we achieved but that you tried to undermine?

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:17 am

#BestBubby wrote:

As far as the fake news propaganda, anti-vaxers generate plenty of it so if it can't outweigh the government propaganda, then why not?

amother

Wheat

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:20 am

#BestBubby wrote:

But there are billions more who never experienced any problems after vaccines and studies have shown they do not cause Autism. It's crazy that people still believe this.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total

#BestBubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:23 am

southernbubby wrote:

Also False. Anti-Vaxxers are not promoting vaccines for anybody. And since vaccine WEAR OFF plus Vaccines fail in a small percent - there is no "herd immunity".

There is a theory that vaccines have caused measles to MUTATE into a more deadlier disease that resists the vaccine - just like over-use of antibiotics has caused germs to mutate and become resistent to antibiotics!

nchr

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:28 am

#BestBubby wrote:

There are also theories that the US government destroyed the WTCs, that unicorns are real, and that we can communicate with ET aliens. Measles has not mutated into a more deadlier disease that resists that vaccine.

And yes, there is herd immunity to many VPDs, but not to all. There is definitely herd immunity for measles, but not necessarily to pertussis. Herd immunity is not relevant to something like tetanus.

Still, I believe in your freedom of choice to vaccinate or not, but not in your right to spread fallacies without being corrected for doing so.

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 10:37 am

#BestBubby wrote:

So until Venezuela fell into such a sorry state, they were not experiencing diphtheria but now they are because vaccine rates have fallen sharply. So it appears that the diphtheria vaccine does prevent outbreaks.
Are you saying that it is preferable to catch diphtheria? It doesn't always respond to treatment.

ETA: Just how far does this anti-vax philosophy go? The military vaccinates against diseases that the troops encounter overseas. Is it better to catch those serious illnesses? What about prevention of rabies in wildlife handlers?
And no one answered if losing limbs to meningitis or vision to rubella is more acceptable than getting the vaccine.

dancingqueen

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 1:46 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

The Government and the Fake News Propaganda has run a scare campaign about Measles that people were never afraid of before this campaign. Per the CDC website the death rate from Measles is 1:10,000 but the CDC campaigned that the death rate from Measles in 1-2:1,000.

A child is a million times more likely to die in a car accident than from the measles (hyperbole) but is anybody afraid to let their child ride a car?
This is proof that the Measles Hysteria is GOVERNMENT MANUFACTURED PROPAGANDA!
]

Actually the evil government does mandate car seat and seatbelt use. Is that tyranny too?

amother

Teal

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 2:19 pm

southernbubby wrote:

anti vaxxers would rather see their kids having rubella at two years of age and be immune for life
which part of this don't you get? you keep missing this point and misquoting what anti vaxxers want

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 5:30 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Are there millions of anti-car-seaters claiming that car seats are an unacceptable risk.
No?

Then your analogy fails.

So if you are ok with government mandating vaccines, are you ok with
government banning bris milah and yeshivas?

Either you have freedom.......or you DON'T. Be careful what you wish for!

So who exactly risked that freedom? I didn't ignore an outbreak; I got vaccinated. I didn't antagonize my neighbors by exposing their infants and medically fragile children to measles and I didn't go to the Atrium to listen to Del Bigtree while frum businesses lost money from cancelling events due to the outbreak. I suffered the embarrassment every time a news report stated that the outbreak was spreading in the frum community and you expect people like me to fix this mess??!

amother

Teal

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 6:02 pm

southernbubby wrote:

you seriously believe that anti vaxxers antagonized people and that's why religious exemptions were banned? well, lemme tell you what I believe
I believe that the DOH KNEW that making up rules like banning children from school (illegally) until 95% of the school is IMMUNE, (not vaccinated) is going to create an even bigger outbreak because people, (like many that I know did) will expose their children to measles in order to get them back into school.
they didn't think that the law which was in place, (if a child in the school has measles then all unvaccinated have to be out for 21 days) is a dumb law or doesn't work. they didn't think their 95% idea was SMARTER than the law that was in place at that time.
if they would've followed the law, and in every school where a measles case was reported, all unvaccinated children would have been banned for three weeks, people with measles would've taken every precaution to hide it and stop the outbreak. they woudn't have wanted their fellow anti vaxxers to be thrown out of school due to their having measles.
THIS DOESN'T TAKE AN EINSTEIN TO FIGURE IT OUT. so don't tell me that DOH "learnt" during this outbreak. if they're not smart enough to know how to handle an outbreak they shouldn't work for DOH.
they KNEW it will create a bigger outbreak and then they have an excuse to ban religious exemptions. that's what they wanted. it was on the agenda to ban religious exemptions because the vaccination rate was too low. it would've happened one way or another. the measles outbreak was a fantastic cover up as an excuse

amother

Wheat

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 6:40 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I've personally dealt with DOH when my infant had herpes and they were so pleasant - both Rockland County and NYS. They were super frum friendly and helped us swab everyone until they found the culprit. They could have lied and said it was the mohel from metzitza bapeh, but they did not - they found it was the sore from someone's hand who changed his diaper the day of the bris.

And no, they could not think that people are so ignorant that they would intentionally expose their children to measles. However, they underestimated the community, which is why there are now individuals who have been severely impacted by the outbreak such as the 10 month old from Monsey who is brain damaged r'l. Exposing your children to measles intentionally is not the same as to mono or even the chicken pox. I know non religious people who do not vaccinate and every one of them have kids out of school now, in proper home schooling situations, but they were apalled that people would intentionally expose thier children to measles.

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 8:04 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I believe that had there been no outbreak, we would not be having this discussion. Religious exemptions were no threat because they were not causing illness. Then when the outbreak occurred, the anti-vaxers demonstrated their blatant disregard for public health and now we have no freedom of choice.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Nov 07 2019, 9:07 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I think she was saying there was only an outbreak because kids were unlawfully kicked out of school. They were kicked out of schools with no cases and not even for 21 days. It was a few months no? Had the children not been kicked out in places with zero cases, parents wouldnt have resorted to get their children measles.