Do you hold of the Eruv in Flatbush?

Cheiny

Sat, Nov 09 2019, 10:47 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

Wow !!! Amazing how knowledgeable you are ! And if I tell you the name of a rabbi who does permit it then you’ll change your opinion ??
I have to say that I’m impressed at your audacity to post such a statement under your screen name. So you must be the woman giving me dirty looks as I walk through the streets wheeling my stroller .
News flash : I am a shaitel wearing tznius woman married to a man who davens with a minyan 3x a day but I must be a bad Jew bec I carry on Shabbos .
It’s people like you and your judgmental ways who give Bklyn a bad rap.

I’m sorry you’re so offended but I will stand by what I’ve been told by every reliable Rov, that there’s no reliable eiruv, and no one reliable checking it either, in addition to the issues of what R Moishe Feinstein’s ZTL psak, and therefore results in chillul Shabbos, and it’s an obligation for every Jew to try to keep another Jew from stumbling. OP asked and I answered. And no, I don’t give anyone who carries dirty looks, I just assume they don’t know and feel sorry about that. In any case, I would imagine that most frum people who are serious about wanting to do the right thing halachically, would err on the side of caution when there’s even a drop of controversy or different opinions on something concerning chillul Shabbos.

Ihatepotatoes

Sat, Nov 09 2019, 11:02 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

If the men were the ones stuck at home with the babies, then of all of sudden the Eruv would be considered ok. Yet another reason why I don’t get how people live in Brooklyn

This statement is utterly ridiculous and abhorrent. It's called "Halacha", and to those who hold that the Eruv is passul, (The vast majority of rabbanim in flatbush, aside from some nebulous "someones" who everyone seems to be relying upon) that Halacha isn't made by some patriarchy out to get you, but from Hashem.

Now there are two points I'll make on this. Number one, it's wrong from the "Poreik ol" perspective, in which people just do as they please without doing what's right ACCORDING TO THEIR HASHKAFA AND THE WAY THEY WERE TAUGHT. You may call it "research before finding a Rabbi" But the truth is that you usually call the one you know will give you the Psak you want. Number two is the "Lehasir Michshol" part of it. Many people who carry in Boro Park stroll without thinking from there to Flatbush, and unlike what some posters said, it's not just on one block. It's on every crosswalk down Ocean Parkway. It's a laissez-faire approach that came about because of the first issue I brought up. People think they know better than people who have spent years learning and studying Psak.

forever21

Sat, Nov 09 2019, 11:11 pm

Cheiny wrote:

You do realize that much of Halacha is not black and white right ?? You do realize that there are many diff sects of Orthodox Judaism and many many different viewpoints right ?? “Err on the side of caution when there’s even a drop of controversy or diff opinions “?? So the chassidim (the men ) are wrong for davening at 10 am , all sefardim should only wear tichels and not Shaitels bec the big Sephardic rabbi said you should so you need to avoid controversy and only wear tichels , etc etc I can go on and on . Sorry to burst your bubble but much of Judaism is full of gray areas . Perhaps you are young and naive and therefore still see the world as black and white .

Cheiny

Sat, Nov 09 2019, 11:18 pm

Ihatepotatoes wrote:

This! I can’t imagine people taking a chance, or shopping for a leniency, when it comes to chillul Shabbos!

Cheiny

Sat, Nov 09 2019, 11:19 pm

forever21 wrote:

Sorry but tichels vs, wigs and what time to raven are NOT the same as carrying on Shabbos! Apples and oranges.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Nov 10 2019, 3:16 am

TriAspora wrote:

Here is the info on Sephardic Flatbush eruv: map, rabbinic endorsements, current status. https://www.erub.org

Exactly which rabbis are part of the "Sephardic Rabbinical council"?

Those that attend "Sephardic shul" There is major controversy with their rulings. and regular "black hatted orthodox sephardim" do not hold by them.
The endorsements listed are not current. 2003? Do these Rabbis not have decendants who can re-issue endorsements to current dates of 2019??
There are tons of Sephardi shuls in Flatbush, yet only 1 name of a Rabbi who actually lives in Flatbush, a Rabbi Alouf?? That proves a majority of current sephardi Rabbanim do not approve of the Erub. Otherwise, their names would be on the endorsements.

TriAspora

Sun, Nov 10 2019, 9:20 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

One can hold of the eruv described in erub.org or not, but this attack is rather feeble. You are questioning Sephardic Rabbinic Council, but the 2003 letter is signed by the chief rabbi of Syrian communities at the time, so it is a respectable organization. And why do you think the eruv needs a Haskomo letter every year? If they did not change the borders or the eruv and the method of how it is maintained, then the original Haskomo stands. Eruv is not a pizza store that needs certification renewal. Websites for Kew Gardens and Kew Gardens Hills eruvim have no Haskomos whatsoever, but these eruvim are widely accepted.

Also, a brief internet search reveals that "a Rabbi Alouf" is Rabbi Shimon Alouf, Rabbi of Shul, posek and student of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. And why is it a problem that other rabbis supporting the eruv do not live in Brooklyn? Halocho is the same everywhere. R' Moshe Feinstein arranged the eruuv in Queens, but he did not live there. Finally, your idea that all rabbis need to sign off on the eruv is not realistic at all, this is not done anywhere.

So, you did not research the topic, did not prove a single point and are anonymously questioning the integrity of people you know nothing about basing your opinion on hearsay. Does your rabbi approve?

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Nov 10 2019, 5:28 pm

and

TriAspora wrote:

I am quite familiar with the "SephardicRabbinaical council" and certainly questioning them, as they are but 1 shul among many Sephardic Shuls in the area. I already know that is it Rabbi Shimon Alouf who is a Rabbi in Ahave V' Ahava on Ocean Parkway Congreation. There are some controversies involvoed with this council. (isn't Sephardic Synagoue on Ave R, the shul that let women dance with the Sefer Torah recently?) They are known for being liberal.
And no, Halacha, is not the same everywhere. "Oseh lechah Rav" You pick ONE Rabbi and you ask him ALL your shailiahs. You can't pick and choose, "oh this Rav paskens this way, so I'll follow him and then for another shailiah, you pick a different rav. Rav Belsky opposed the Flatbush Eruv.
Because the Ocean parkway is a major issue(which runs through Flatbush and I am not taliking about Boro Park, because I am not familar with the Rebbes involved in that decision). There is a problem.
Israeli rabbi's shouldn't decide if a Eruv is kosher, when there are MANY Rabbis in the Area already. There is practically a shul on every corner in Flatbush, yet why is there only ONE Shul who is listed on the "Sephardic Rabbinical Council??!!'
I am quite familiar with many of the Sephardic/Syrian Rabbis in the area and I can quite postively say, they do NOT hold by that "Flatbush Eruv".
And as for as a Haskomo for every year. Just like a Store needs to have it's hecher renewed every year, to make sure it Kashrut is update, so to an Eruv needs to be checked that it is kosher, even more so then a store, It most be checked weekly. Who exactly is doing the checking of the Eruv before Shabbos?? The area involved is huge!!

TriAspora

Sun, Nov 10 2019, 5:48 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I am quite familiar with the "SephardicRabbinaical council" . There are some controversies involvoed with this council. (isn't Sephardic Synagoue let women dance with the Sefer Torah recently?) They are known for being liberal.
And no, Halacha, is not the same everywhere. "Oseh lechah Rav" You pick ONE Rabbi and you ask him ALL your shailiahs. You can't pick and choose, "oh this Rav paskens this way, so I'll follow him and then for another shailiah, you pick a different rav. Rav Belsky opposed the Flatbush Eruv.
Because the Ocean parkway is a major issue(which runs through Flatbush and I am not taliking about Boro Park, because I am not familar with the Rebbes involved in that decision). There is a problem.
Israeli rabbi's shouldn't decide if a Eruv is kosher, when there are MANY Rabbis in the Area already. There is practically a shul on every corner in Flatbush, yet why is there only ONE Shul who is listed on the "Sephardic Rabbinical Council??!!'
I am quite familiar with many of the Sephardic/Syrian Rabbis in the area and I can quite postively say, they do NOT hold by that "Flatbush Eruv".
And as for as a Haskomo for every year. Just like a Store needs to have it's hecher renewed every year, to make sure it Kashrut is update, so to an Eruv needs to be checked that it is kosher, even more so then a store, It most be checked weekly. Who exactly is doing the checking of the Eruv before Shabbos?? The area involved is huge!!

Why are you casting aspersions? If you don't trust the eruv or are unfamiliar with the supervising rabbis, don't carry, by all means. But don't attack the people who carry just because you don't have all the information. The front page of the website erub.org clearly states that the eruv is checked weekly and a status email is sent. I am sure it's easy to find out who does the checking. And of course the weekly checking is totally different from Haskomo, which is given when eruv is established and does not have to be re-issued unless the setup changes. Like I have said before, Queens eruvim, which are widely accepted, don't list even one haskomo on the website, but only the weekly status. You are free to trust or not, to carry or not, but your attack is without merit.

amother

Silver

Sun, Nov 10 2019, 6:03 pm

I just want to add the " new" eruv is technically fully kasher to the strictest standards although I do not know who checks it each week for shabbas and where you can find that info. And 2, the problem/ machlokes isn't with the eruv, its that the rabbanim who fall into livtvish, yeshivish, yeshivish sefardi, veryRW MO, and very right wing chassidish ( like the ones who's women fast all the fasts) all publically said you CANNOT use it because of R Moshe's psak. Middle and left MO in the sfard and Ashkenazi boxes as well as that half of the chassidish that paskens this way all say its good to use.

So to the OP it all depends on your box. Then the Rabbi's will say accordingly.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Nov 10 2019, 6:04 pm

TriAspora wrote:

Because, by writing "sephardic" and having a website. it is making it sound like it is widely excepted by most flatbush Sephardim, which it is not.
I am quite familiar with the Rabbis on that Website. A few clicks on Rabbi Alouf and you will find a certain Rabbi "Dweck" (in connection who married into Chacham Ovadia's family, so just because you are related, doesn't make you "kosher") who made very controversial videos(that many Sephardic Rabbis have opposed and blasted!!)
I am just making it known, that the "Flatbush Eruv" is not excepted by most Black Hatted Sephardim and Litvish Ashkenazim in Flatbush.