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If you oppose impeachment: A respectful question
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:38 pm
small bean wrote:
Um the Biden scandal is also an Obama scandal. If you dont think it's a scandal than this whole conversation is not honest.


Bingo. What Biden did and bragged about/admitted to (bumbling fool that he is) is the epitome of a quid pro quo, yet fine with liberals.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:40 pm
Jeanette wrote:
the accusations against Biden are pure conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.


Lol! He openly bragged about it! You really should shut off CNN. It leaves its viewers completely unaware of the facts.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:41 pm
small bean wrote:
Have you seen the video of Biden admitting it after it happened?


Can you believe the level of ignorance necessary to repeat the claims of conspiracy, even in the face of Biden openly bragging about it?
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Jeanette




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:46 pm
small bean wrote:
Have you seen the video of Biden admitting it after it happened?


Yes. Biden acted publicly in carrying out US policy.

Trump acted secretly in his attempt to subvert US policy.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:47 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Yes. Biden acted publicly in carrying out US policy.

Trump acted secretly in his attempt to subvert US policy.


Lol! Another keeper! LOL
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small bean




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 9:17 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Yes. Biden acted publicly in carrying out US policy.

Trump acted secretly in his attempt to subvert US policy.


I assume you are not being serious. Biden admitted on tape that he withheld aid to Ukraine until they dropped the prosecutor that was investigating Baresma. That is the definition of a quid pro quo. Which is what the impeachment is about. If we dont agree on this then the conversation is really stupid and dishonest.
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Jeanette




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 9:23 pm
small bean wrote:
I assume you are not being serious. Biden admitted on tape that he withheld aid to Ukraine until they dropped the prosecutor that was investigating Baresma. That is the definition of a quid pro quo. Which is what the impeachment is about. If we dont agree on this then the conversation is really stupid and dishonest.


Small Bean, you can't just make claims. You need to show evidence. You need to get your facts straight.

Name the prosecutor that Biden demanded to be fired.

Was the prosecutor investigating Burisma at the time?

Did firing the prosecutor end the investigation into Burisma?

Was Burisma a factor in asking Ukraine to fire the prosecutor?

Did Biden act on his own in demanding that the prosecutor be fired?

Did he do it publicly or through secret channels?

Did he use his personal lawyer to put pressure on Ukraine?

Go do your research and get back to us.
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wiki




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 9:42 pm
Jeanette has this one right. Quid pro quos are not inherently criminal and pressure is part of how foreign policy happens.

Look at the people arguing that trump deserves impeachment here. They don't say, "he did a quid pro quo and that's impeachable!"

They say he abused the power of his office. He solicited foreign campaign intervention which is a crime. He obstructed justice. Bide, did none of the three.

Prove that Biden abused the power of his office in getting Shokin fired. All of the western world, and plenty of Republican in Congress, wanted him fired. Shokin's firing did NOT save Hunter Biden's company from investigation and it's really naive to think Biden expected it to.
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wiki




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 9:48 pm
Oh and Cheiny, you should know that the video of Biden discussing his threat over aid to get Shokin fired was widely shared across liberal media.

I saw it in the twitter feeds of conservatives who defend trump that I read and also in the twitter feeds of super pro-impeachment pundits.

I don't think it's any sort of secret weapon that if only people knew about it, they'd come to see the president's actions as any less of a clear cut case for impeachment that they are.
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wiki




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 9:57 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Yes. Biden acted publicly in carrying out US policy.

Trump acted secretly in his attempt to subvert US policy.


People were mocking Jeannette without offering any refuting evidence, but she's correct.

In Trump's withholding of aid to Ukraine, you had everyone from Pentagon officials to Mitch McConnell being lied to or misled about why the aid was being held up. You had conversations about it being stored on secret servers so state department officials could not find them. You had much of the legwork conducted by the Giuliani and Parnas and Truman, *who do not serve the interests of the American public.* (Giuliani admitted exactly this a few nights ago!)

Biden's actions clearly served the public interest as the western world knew Shokin was an impediment to rule of law in Ukraine.

If Trump's demands were all kosher, Zelensky *would* be investigating Hunter Biden right now. Ever consider why he isn't?
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 10:26 pm
small bean wrote:
I assume you are not being serious. Biden admitted on tape that he withheld aid to Ukraine until they dropped the prosecutor that was investigating Baresma. That is the definition of a quid pro quo. Which is what the impeachment is about. If we dont agree on this then the conversation is really stupid and dishonest.


Yes, your last 3 words sum it up exactly.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 10:29 pm
wiki wrote:
Jeanette has this one right. Quid pro quos are not inherently criminal and pressure is part of how foreign policy happens.

Look at the people arguing that trump deserves impeachment here. They don't say, "he did a quid pro quo and that's impeachable!"


Huh? Quid pro quo is exactly the terms dems used to start this phony impeachment hoax. Now that they know they don’t have any evidence pointing to it, they’ve relabelled it...this alone should prove to even the most rabid of liberals that this is just yet another in their series of hoaxes/trying to find a crime...
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 10:30 pm
wiki wrote:
Oh and Cheiny, you should know that the video of Biden discussing his threat over aid to get Shokin fired was widely shared across liberal media.

I saw it in the twitter feeds of conservatives who defend trump that I read and also in the twitter feeds of super pro-impeachment pundits.

I don't think it's any sort of secret weapon that if only people knew about it, they'd come to see the president's actions as any less of a clear cut case for impeachment that they are.


Jeanette seems to have never heard it.
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 10:32 pm
wiki wrote:
People were mocking Jeannette without offering any refuting evidence, but she's correct.

In Trump's withholding of aid to Ukraine, you had everyone from Pentagon officials to Mitch McConnell being lied to or misled about why the aid was being held up. You had conversations about it being stored on secret servers so state department officials could not find them. You had much of the legwork conducted by the Giuliani and Parnas and Truman, *who do not serve the interests of the American public.* (Giuliani admitted exactly this a few nights ago!)

Biden's actions clearly served the public interest as the western world knew Shokin was an impediment to rule of law in Ukraine.

If Trump's demands were all kosher, Zelensky *would* be investigating Hunter Biden right now. Ever consider why he isn't?


Ever consider why Schiff is terrified of allowing him to testify? Wow, your parroting of the CNN fabrications and distortions is scary.
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Jeanette




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 10:35 pm
wiki wrote:
People were mocking Jeannette without offering any refuting evidence, but she's correct.

In Trump's withholding of aid to Ukraine, you had everyone from Pentagon officials to Mitch McConnell being lied to or misled about why the aid was being held up. You had conversations about it being stored on secret servers so state department officials could not find them. You had much of the legwork conducted by the Giuliani and Parnas and Truman, *who do not serve the interests of the American public.* (Giuliani admitted exactly this a few nights ago!)

Biden's actions clearly served the public interest as the western world knew Shokin was an impediment to rule of law in Ukraine.

If Trump's demands were all kosher, Zelensky *would* be investigating Hunter Biden right now. Ever consider why he isn't?


All I'm asking people to do is ask questions. Do your research. If someone makes a claim, ask where the claim comes from. Follow up. Don't just accept what people tell you. Find out what they're basing their statements on. Compare different sources of information. Do they contradict each other? Do they make sense? Are they consistent? Keep a sense of scale and perspective. Always ask yourself why you're taking this position or supporting this person. Nothing is set in stone. It's okay to step back and rethink things.
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small bean




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 11:27 pm
Quid pro quo is not impeachable. If you want to impeach over it,you would need to prove that there was money withheld for personal or political interest. In the Biden case, it was used for both personal and political interest. There is no way to say that this was done for the US. In Trumps case the only way you will know is if trump or Giuliani testify. If you notice, everyone who testifies is saying they were attributing it to trump's intent, without actually anything being told to them specifically. So if you think trump must be impeached than you have to consider that the Rs should've investigated and considered impeachment for both Obama and biden.

Guys I dont have time to read everything your writing but you're spinning circles. It was wrong for biden and its wrong for trump. If you were okay with it by biden, than you should be okay with it for trump.

All the transcripts that have gotten released dont make a case for impeachment and dont make trump look good either. Taylor's and vindman both look bad themselves, vindman seems to be lacking basic knowledge of what's going on in Ukraine altogether and Taylor's says alot of what he knows is from the New York times. Not a good look.

If you hate trump, you want him impeached no matter what you hear or say. If you love trump you think everything is perfect. If you're in the middle, you think everyone is corrupt and everyone is wrong here.

He's not gonna be thrown out of office, the Senate is not going to vote like that no matter what comes out of all this. It's a waste of our tax payer dollars.
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small bean




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 11:36 pm
Also I got a new phone and can't figure out how to link from YouTube. Go to youtube and out in biden Ukraine and then video should come up. Then take the date on the video and Google burisma court investigation and around that date. And you will see it. This is not hard.

And regarding zelensky, they are looking into burisma again as of the beginning of October the new prosecutor, said he was auditing previous cases.

I don't care so much about impeachment as much as the wasted tax dollars.
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Jeanette




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 11:52 pm
Small Bean, why not just answer the simple yes or no questions I asked you? Shouldn't take long to Google.
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small bean




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 11:57 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Small Bean, why not just answer the simple yes or no questions I asked you? Shouldn't take long to Google.


I missed a question. What is it?
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Cheiny




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 11:25 am
No wonder Schiff is so terrified of allowing the so called whistle blower to be questioned by Republicans (even in private, protecting his identity). Not only have he, his atty (admitted by said atty’s own tweet since 2017) and Schiff been colluding to carry out this coup, but this guy is a criminal... Indeed, all those Schiff has in his back pocket are dem operatives and have bias against the president, hardly reliable witnesses.
Now we have said “wb’s” motive for making these claims against the president: he’s enriching himself as a result of having done so.

https://html2-f.scribdassets.c.....b.jpg

https://www.foxnews.com/politi.....lower

ICIG complaint alleges Trump-Ukraine whistleblower may be soliciting illicit donations
Gregg Re By Gregg Re | Fox News


Democratic staffer emailed Ukraine ambassador to discuss 'delicate' issue following whistleblower complaint
Staffer emailed about 'time-sensitive' issue days after the complaint was filed.

EXCLUSIVE: A newly filed complaint to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) alleges that the whistleblower whose allegations touched off House Democrats' impeachment inquiry may have violated federal law by indirectly soliciting more than a quarter-million dollars from mostly anonymous sources via a GoFundMe page.

The complaint, which was filed last week and obtained by Fox News, alleged the donations from roughly 6,000 individuals "clearly constitute" gifts to a current intelligence official that may be restricted because of the employee's official position pursuant to 5 CFR 2635.203 and other statutes. To date, the GoFundMe has raised over $227,000.

READ THE COMPLAINT

The complaint also raised the possibility that some of the donations may have come from prohibited sources, and asked the ICIG to look into whether any "foreign citizen or agent of a foreign government" contributed.

Tully Rinckey PLLC, the law firm representing the individual reporting the allegations, is closely guarding the identity of their client, though Fox News is told the individual is the holder of a top-secret SCI security clearance and has served in government.

"I have not seen anything on this scale," Anthony Gallo, the managing partner of Tully Rinckey PLLC, told Fox News, referring to the fundraising. "It's not about politics for my client -- it's whistleblower-on-whistleblower, and [my client's] only interest is to see the government ethics rules are being complied with government-wide."

'COUP HAS STARTED,' WHISTLEBLOWER ATTORNEY ANNOUNCED IN 2017

Fox News reported in September that the nonprofit Whistleblower Aid worked with the whistleblower's attorneys at the Compass Rose Legal Group to start the GoFundMe.

The whistleblower's attorneys have called the GoFundMe a way to "help support the Intelligence Community Whistleblower [to] raise funds," and the GoFundMe page itself states that "A U.S. intelligence officer... needs your help" in the form of a "crowdfunding effort to support the whistleblower’s lawyers."

The fundraising page claims that "donations will only be accepted from U.S. citizens." But, the majority of the GoFundMe donors to the whistleblower's campaign were not named, and legal experts have told Fox News that the ICIG likely would need to subpoena the website to obtain more information on their origins.

'It's whistleblower-on-whistleblower.'
— Tully Rinckey PLLC managing partner Anthony Gallo
Fox News has reached out for comment to whistleblower attorney Mark Zaid, who is reviewing the complaint. The ICIG's office declined to comment when reached by Fox News.

The Office of Government Ethics (OGE) warned federal government employees earlier this year that they "may not accept any gift given because of the employee's official position," meaning that the gift would "not have been given had the employee not held the status, authority, or duties associated with the employee's federal position."

The OGE also cautioned that gifts may not be accepted from "prohibited sources," including anyone who "conducts activities regulated by the employee’s agency" or who "has interests that can be affected by the performance or non-performance of the employee’s official duties."

Lt. Col. Vindman tells lawmakers that he is not the whistleblowerVideo
The new ICIG complaint alleged that the donations through the GoFundMe page indeed constitute a "gift" for a federal employee, and that they were made due to the whistleblower's official "status, authority or duties." It further alleged that the whistleblower and his legal team appeared to be exploiting their access to classified information.

"[M]y client believes ... that the federal employee you are protecting and their attorneys apparently have strategically weaponized their alleged whistleblowing activities into a very lucrative money-making enterprise using a charity incorporated under a different name than the trade name it is using for fund-raising purposes, which would appear to my client to be a clear abuse of the federal employee's authority and access to classified information," Gallo wrote in the letter to ICIG Michael Atkinson, the same government watchdog who originally received the Ukraine complaint from the whistleblower.

KEY DEM WITNESS MAY HAVE LIED UNDER OATH, GOP CONGRESSMAN SAYS, AFTER FOX NEWS OBTAINS EMAILS OF COMMS WITH DEM STAFFER

That paragraph was a reference to Whistleblower Aid, which is also known as Values United, co-founded by Zaid. (Values United tax documents show it paid $258,085 for advertising and consulting services to West End Strategy Team, whose founder Matt Dorf was quoted on the group's website saying he "influences progressive politics, skillfully shifting the conversation to achieve the goals of West End Strategy clients.")

"We are requesting you investigate whether [criminal statutes or regulations have] been violated by the federal employee you are protecting when they reportedly requested an investigation into a matter that they had no direct personal knowledge of, and on account of which they were able to obtain sizeable gifts from unknown persons because of their official duty," Gallo concluded.

Mark Zaid is one of the whistleblower's attorneys.
Mark Zaid is one of the whistleblower's attorneys.
The Ukraine whistleblower's complaint -- about President Trump's effort to pressure Ukraine to announce politically advantageous investigations -- triggered an impeachment inquiry that will shift into a public phase this week with the launch of House hearings. Trump's GOP allies have sought to learn more about the whistleblower motivations, however, and Trump himself has criticized Zaid -- after Fox News reported last week that the attorney had tweeted about the beginning of a "coup" against the president in 2017.

Zaid later defended the tweets as reflecting "the sentiments of millions of people" at the time. The law firm has also demanded the White House stop attacking the whistleblower, reportedly warning that Trump’s rhetoric and activity are putting the individual in danger.

The latest ICIG complaint, meanwhile, noted that the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigations division has been notified.

GoFundMe campaigns have seen a surge in popularity in recent months, as former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe and former FBI agent Peter Strzok have each established campaigns that raised tens of thousands of dollars.

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP

But, those campaigns began after McCabe and Strzok left government service, making the whistleblower's GoFundMe a unique fundraising effort. Fox News is told the ICIG typically replies to complaints swiftly.

"I hope that it's acted on expeditiously," Gallo told Fox News. "The time is ripe to address these issues."

Fox News' Ronn Blitzer contributed to this report.
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