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Mild reaction again....now what?
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amother




Jade
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 4:23 pm
southernbubby wrote:
The DOE can be sued for denying an education.

Yep yep. It's all in the works.

The problem is that lawsuits don't take place overnight, as opposed to this bad law which got passed from health committee to signed by governor in an express train of 8 hours. Senators have said that in all their time in Albany they've never seen a bill get rammed through so quickly.

Yet to overturn this law, we either need to wait till January for the new legistlative session to pass a new law or we need to win a lawsuit which can take a minimum of months if not years.
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 4:48 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Citizens are doing this, but good luck finding doctors to file a lawsuit against the government body which provides them with their license to practice....


What would the claim for damages be of that lawsuit if filed?
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amother




Honeydew
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 4:50 pm
Lawsuits were filed by the antivaxxers not sure what happened at the end if it was thrown out or postponed
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 5:02 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
What would the claim for damages be of that lawsuit if filed?


If the school district is supposed to provide an education and denied a child one because he could not get vaccines because a doctor said that it is contraindicated but the doctor could not issue a ME due to government scrutiny, the parents can sue for the loss of DOE services.
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amother




Azure
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 5:07 pm
southernbubby wrote:
If the school district is supposed to provide an education and denied a child one because he could not get vaccines because a doctor said that it is contraindicated but the doctor could not issue a ME due to government scrutiny, the parents can sue for the loss of DOE services.


I meant - what would the doctors claim be?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 5:13 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote:
I meant - what would the doctors claim be?


That the law is preventing doctors from using sound medical judgement in deciding to delay a vaccine.
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amother




Jade
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:16 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
Lawsuits were filed by the antivaxxers not sure what happened at the end if it was thrown out or postponed
Lawsuits take time. They're all still progressing even though their requests for preliminary injunction have thus far been denied by multiple judges. Separately, there's a case ongoing of parents against Rockland County for their (questionable) actions during the outbreak.
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amother




Jade
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:20 pm
southernbubby wrote:
If the school district is supposed to provide an education and denied a child one because he could not get vaccines because a doctor said that it is contraindicated but the doctor could not issue a ME due to government scrutiny, the parents can sue for the loss of DOE services.

There are many such kids unfortunately who have IEPs and are now being denied services because they take place in school. Some of these special needs kids would be harmed by vaccines, and their doctors have attested to that as well. But the school board is denying the ME due to DOH regulations. If you have facebook access, you can watch this video of parents talking about their experiences : https://www.facebook.com/TheDa.....6-c4a
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:26 pm
amother [ Wheat ] wrote:
https://www.aad.org/diseases/eczema/child-vaccinations-cause

Vaccinations do NOT cause eczema.

Dermatologists very much encourage people who have eczema to get vaccinated.

If someone with eczema has an extreme allergic reaction to eggs, however, you should talk with your doctor about alternatives for two vaccinations.

The first vaccination that can cause problems for someone with eczema who has an extreme allergy to eggs is the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine. Children who have severe cardiorespiratory (heart and breathing) or gastrointestinal (GI) problems after eating eggs or just being exposed to eggs may need an alternative vaccine. This is the only situation in which an alternative to the MMR vaccine may be needed.

Even if a child has hives, the MMR vaccine can be given. You may want to watch the child for 30 minutes afterwards.

Another vaccination that has gotten some attention is the influenza vaccine. If a person with eczema has a severe allergic reaction to eggs, be sure your doctor knows this before you (or your child) receives the flu vaccine. Be sure to discuss alternate vaccinations.

The vast majority of children who have eczema should get the vaccinations recommended for their age.

Immunizations are so important for children who have eczema.

Tell this to all the parents who delayed vaccines and kids had clear skin and then got vax and BAM eczema. It may very well be the antigens causing an overactive immune reaction thereby causing the allergy or eczema. Not that the eggs in the vaccine are causing the eczema because the child was already allergic to eggs.
Why, do you believe the AAD over all the myriad of parents?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:50 pm
What is happening here is that each side is so polarized that they can't come together for the sake of the kids; both the ones that can't receive vaccines and the ones that need vital protection from disease that vaccines provide and some kids are in both categories. Society probably could find answers as to why some diseases and disorders are more prevalent today but not if each side is waging a turf battle.
I for one, am not a fan of anti-vax propaganda but I don't want false assurances from the CDC either. Too bad there is no middle ground.
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:55 pm
southernbubby wrote:
What is happening here is that each side is so polarized that they can't come together for the sake of the kids; both the ones that can't receive vaccines and the ones that need vital protection from disease that vaccines provide and some kids are in both categories. Society probably could find answers as to why some diseases and disorders are more prevalent today but not if each side is waging a turf battle.
I for one, am not a fan of anti-vax propaganda but I don't want false assurances from the CDC either. Too bad there is no middle ground.

Safer vaccines and stop the propaganda that they are "SAFE and EFFECTIVE" for ALL...
Antivaxers swear by homeopathy. There are homeopathic "vaccines". The Queen of England uses a homeopathic physician. Maybe it is something that should be looked into What
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amother




Jade
 

Post  Mon, Nov 11 2019, 11:38 pm
southernbubby wrote:
What is happening here is that each side is so polarized that they can't come together for the sake of the kids; both the ones that can't receive vaccines and the ones that need vital protection from disease that vaccines provide and some kids are in both categories. Society probably could find answers as to why some diseases and disorders are more prevalent today but not if each side is waging a turf battle.
I for one, am not a fan of anti-vax propaganda but I don't want false assurances from the CDC either. Too bad there is no middle ground.

It is very understandable why the issue has become polarized. Questioning vaccines, in any shape or form, is a threat to the vaccination program which, according to mainstream perspective, has achieved tremendous good. Thus those who promote vaccines (government, doctors) dig their heels in and refuse to acknowledge that the science on vaccines is not settled and that people do have legitimate concerns. This denial of valid concerns or actual adverse reactions causes those who are questioning to become more strongly anti. We feel like they can't be trusted anymore.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:08 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
Safer vaccines and stop the propaganda that they are "SAFE and EFFECTIVE" for ALL...
Antivaxers swear by homeopathy. There are homeopathic "vaccines". The Queen of England uses a homeopathic physician. Maybe it is something that should be looked into What


There are many problems associated with homeopathy including lack of effectiveness, lack of recognized licensure, not available to the masses who would be severely affected by epidemics, and not covered by insurance.
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amother




Aquamarine
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:13 am
southernbubby wrote:
There are many problems associated with homeopathy including lack of effectiveness, lack of recognized licensure, not available to the masses who would be severely affected by epidemics, and not covered by insurance.
chicken or egg?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:17 am
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
It is very understandable why the issue has become polarized. Questioning vaccines, in any shape or form, is a threat to the vaccination program which, according to mainstream perspective, has achieved tremendous good. Thus those who promote vaccines (government, doctors) dig their heels in and refuse to acknowledge that the science on vaccines is not settled and that people do have legitimate concerns. This denial of valid concerns or actual adverse reactions causes those who are questioning to become more strongly anti. We feel like they can't be trusted anymore.


At the same time anti-vaxers tend to blame many diseases on vaccines even though it is hard to prove a connection, they fail to credit vaccines for preventing deadly epidemics, they distort history and take things out of context, they promote worthless alternative medicine that is not even available to many people, and they seem totally disinterested in public health. Because of their social media behavior, they have alienated many people. So we have to sides that can't work together for a safer outcome. Do you see that both sides have alienated the other?
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amother




Green
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:20 am
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
Tell this to all the parents who delayed vaccines and kids had clear skin and then got vax and BAM eczema. It may very well be the antigens causing an overactive immune reaction thereby causing the allergy or eczema. Not that the eggs in the vaccine are causing the eczema because the child was already allergic to eggs.
Why, do you believe the AAD over all the myriad of parents?

Because when something happens to a child parents automatically search for a culprit. It's instinctive. So anything that can possibly be linked suddenly becomes linked, memory warps a bit and it's hard to remember every detail, and then the parent becomes virulently anti-vax and when faced with honest questions starts to invent details (consciously or unconsciously) which support the theory and disprove facts.

So for instance a child who was prone to diaper rash or rash from a bit of moisture staying on the skin but doesn't have ecezema, at some point it becomes eczema and the parent says, hey, look, child got a vaccine! Must be the vaccine! But ignores the fact that all the signs were there earlier.

So this is why we don't trust the myriad of parents, parents' memory is subjective and the strong drive to find a "why" to remove blame from self and to prevent repeats in the future with the same child or a different child often blinds parents to the facts. Parents come with their own interpretations and explanations and those are often driven by society's expectations, if you want to know whether vaccines cause eczema you need to do proper scientific studies, not rely on the subjective memories of overtired parents who want to protect their children and therefore search high and low for causes which might be avoidable in the future.

Kinda like gas in newborns, there's no evidence that eliminating dairy and wheat and whatnot will reduce the gas, maybe it's true for a select few who will later develop allergies (hmmm that's also blameable on the vaccine), but in most cases the gas goes away not because mom eliminates something but because at 2-3-4 months it gets better anyways. Again maybe for some babies it really does work but overall, no, there's no reason to eliminate foods, it doesn't reduce gas for the vast majority of babies. But for sure there are moms who swear by it because for the first 10 weeks their baby had horrible gas and 2 weeks after she quit dairy (baby is now 12 weeks) the baby's gas was gone.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:21 am
amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:
chicken or egg?


Are there reliable homeopathic practioners who will offer free care to the indigent so we can see for ourselves if it really does anything? The health department will vaccinate them for free.
I once went to a homeopath who charged $$$ and made my kid even sicker so I am not going to promote it.
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amother




Aquamarine
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 9:47 am
southernbubby wrote:
Are there reliable homeopathic practioners who will offer free care to the indigent so we can see for ourselves if it really does anything? The health department will vaccinate them for free.
I once went to a homeopath who charged $$$ and made my kid even sicker so I am not going to promote it.
Whaaat?? So the health department is offering free vaccines to the indigent to see if they work?? And that's ethical? What's more, nobody is giving away these vaccines for free, somebody is paying pharma for it, whether it's bill gates foundation or government with their huge pockets, believe me someone is profiting. Lastly, homeopathy is generally inexpensive and harmless, I'm sorry you had a bad experiene. Also, if government, health insurance and pharma wouldn't be such tight, exclusive bedfellows, maybe insurance would cover homoepathy? Or maybe people would actually have to pay for their own medical procedures so they could see with their own eyes how relatively inexpensive homeopathy is. Can't you see how it's all a set-up?

point being, goverment doesn't have to hand it out for free to let people see if it works, they need to de-stigmatize it, de-deligitimize it, and start letting the free market do it's magic. What a bizarre suggestion.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 10:06 am
amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:
Whaaat?? So the health department is offering free vaccines to the indigent to see if they work?? And that's ethical? What's more, nobody is giving away these vaccines for free, somebody is paying pharma for it, whether it's bill gates foundation or government with their huge pockets, believe me someone is profiting. Lastly, homeopathy is generally inexpensive and harmless, I'm sorry you had a bad experiene. Also, if government, health insurance and pharma wouldn't be such tight, exclusive bedfellows, maybe insurance would cover homoepathy? Or maybe people would actually have to pay for their own medical procedures so they could see with their own eyes how relatively inexpensive homeopathy is. Can't you see how it's all a set-up?

point being, goverment doesn't have to hand it out for free to let people see if it works, they need to de-stigmatize it, de-deligitimize it, and start letting the free market do it's magic. What a bizarre suggestion.


Let's sort out reality:
1) The government doesn't vaccinate the indigent as to see if it works because they already assume it does
2) Homeopathic practioners charge$$$ and don't have the type of credentials that insurance wants reimburse. The individual remedies are cheap but not readily available in many places.
3) Alternative medicine has been researched and rated in terms of effectiveness and homeopathy rates very low.
4) What does the government gain by promoting a type of alternative medicine when there are not many practioners compared to standard medical practitioners?
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amother




Natural
 

Post  Tue, Nov 12 2019, 10:18 am
amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:
Whaaat?? So the health department is offering free vaccines to the indigent to see if they work?? And that's ethical? What's more, nobody is giving away these vaccines for free, somebody is paying pharma for it, whether it's bill gates foundation or government with their huge pockets, believe me someone is profiting. Lastly, homeopathy is generally inexpensive and harmless, I'm sorry you had a bad experiene. Also, if government, health insurance and pharma wouldn't be such tight, exclusive bedfellows, maybe insurance would cover homoepathy? Or maybe people would actually have to pay for their own medical procedures so they could see with their own eyes how relatively inexpensive homeopathy is. Can't you see how it's all a set-up?

point being, goverment doesn't have to hand it out for free to let people see if it works, they need to de-stigmatize it, de-deligitimize it, and start letting the free market do it's magic. What a bizarre suggestion.

I don’t know where you live, but where I live homeopaths are not cheap. They don’t take insurance, and you can’t send in receipts for reimbursement. Many of the remedies and treatments are relatively inexpensive, but are not readily available, and often need to be taken for a while, which adds up. That’s not inexpensive.
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