Recent measles | Imamother

amother

Copper

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:56 am

Of course titers should be checked. If you are in healthcare you check titers so be smart and even if you are not in healthcare ask for the same titers test so that you can also be protected. Test your kallahs and chasanim. To test when already pregnant is too late. Get shots as a kalla is the titers are weakened or shots were neglected before because then you need to wait a few weeks to get pregnant. Do your hishtadlus. BTW hatzolahs are also checked for titers. The ones I came across were still immune.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:58 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

All were as a result of the vaccine! They were vaccine strain polio. Just saying.

I think that in some countries they use a live virus so that they vaccine virus immunizes other people but I guess that some of them develop the virus itself. Isn't that how it works?

amother

Copper

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:21 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

All were as a result of the vaccine! They were vaccine strain polio. Just saying.

And your hundreds of yddishe cousins that had in the 50s were they also due to shots? Blood in your hands for misleading and fearmongering!

amother

Blush

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:57 am

southernbubby wrote:

I think that in some countries they use a live virus so that they vaccine virus immunizes other people but I guess that some of them develop the virus itself. Isn't that how it works?

The OPV given without the IPV immunizes those around the immunized individual. If there are too many unvaccinated individuals then the second or third circles sometimes get a version that has been mutated and then become ill.

The t-OPV sometimes makes recipients who have not received the IPV ill. But just to be safe they are giving only the b-OPV now and only after 3 doses of the IPV. That way no one can spread the virus (with just the IPV you can be a carrier but not ill) and no one is at risk from getting just the OPV.

amother

Blush

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:59 am

southernbubby wrote:

There is medical advice coming out now that adults should check titers to see if they are still immune.

Yep, I'm aware of that. I know a doctor who believes there will soon be a recommendation for an MMR booster in the teen years.

amother

Copper

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 9:05 am

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

Yep, I'm aware of that. I know a doctor who believes there will soon be a recommendation for an MMR booster in the teen years.

It makes sense because there is an israely study where teenagers lost immunity already

amother

Denim

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 4:19 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

It makes sense because there is an israely study where teenagers lost immunity already

What? No way! Didn't nchr say that 97% of ppl have lifetime immunity after 2 doses?
Oh, wait. That fact is only fact until a 3rd booster gets introduced.
They just keep moving the goalpost.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 4:25 pm

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

What? No way! Didn't nchr say that 97% of ppl have lifetime immunity after 2 doses?
Oh, wait. That fact is only fact until a 3rd booster gets introduced.
They just keep moving the goalpost.

The outbreak shed some light on the fact that the immunity can wear off and even when titers show that the person is immune, they might develop a mild case of measles.

amother

Denim

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:24 pm

southernbubby wrote:

The outbreak shed some light on the fact that the immunity can wear off and even when titers show that the person is immune, they might develop a mild case of measles.

I know that. I'm the first one on this thread to say that. In fact, many of us anti-vaxxers have been saying this for awhile: Vaccines are being made out to be safer and more effective than they actually are in order to raise vaccination rates. However, slowly slowly people are beginning to become aware that this is not a black and white issue (for example, vaccination/=immune, or vaccines = safe) and are not going to settle for sh!t no more.

amother

Sienna

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:31 pm

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

People wont care. They dont mind boosters.

nchr

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:44 pm

southernbubby wrote:

The outbreak shed some light on the fact that the immunity can wear off and even when titers show that the person is immune, they might develop a mild case of measles.

I'm not sure where you are taking that from. That is what some misinformed individuals have been saying. If someone is immune, they will not develop measles. That is what immunity is. However, 2 doses of the vaccine provide life long immunity in 97% of the population. That means 3% of vaccinated individuals are not immune, or may not be for life. In real life, I do not know one individual who had their titers tested and were shown to not be immune; however, I haven't spoken to 100 people about this.

Also, measles is extremely destructive to the immune system and is a serious disease. NY had multiple hospitalizations during this outbreak, including many children in the ICU - there were complications, including a 10 month old child with severe brain damage. That is one child too many.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:42 pm

nchr wrote:

Do you have a study proving the 97% lifelong immunity? Or are you just repeating talking points that they want you to believe to make vaccines seem a lot more effective than it really is?

nchr

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:51 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Do you have a study proving the 97% lifelong immunity? Or are you just repeating talking points that they want you to believe to make vaccines seem a lot more effective than it really is?

Yes, go on ncbi- this has been tested. People do not make up statistics - they are based upon facts discovered during routine tests. Very bizarre. Also, you realize that if there was significant vaccine failure that we would have seen tens of thousands of measles cases, not the small amount we did, of which the vast majority of cases were limited to unvaccinated or under vaccinated individuals. I still dont think you should be required to vaccinate though.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:56 pm

nchr wrote:

I don't think [primary or secondary] vaccine failure is "significant" enough to cause thousands of adult cases but I do think it's more than than the measly 3% they're quoting you. Has this protocol with this specific version of the mmr even been around long enough to actually test until the end of people's lives? And are they actually trying it out by exposing people many years later and seeing if they titers they are showing are conferring actual immunity?

nchr

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:56 pm

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

I know more than a few adults who'd gotten both mmrs and tested titers only to find they're not immune and I also know several adults who had both mmrs and had measles last year.

Are they all related? I'm just curious because it is very unusual. I do believe you though. Also, are you sure they had two? If they are older than 35 they probably did not but that would still be a high percentage.

nchr

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:00 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

For arguments sake - let's say it was 85% effective. That means you'd have 15 out of every 100 not immune. That means for 10,000 exposures to vaccinated individuals, youd have about 1,500 cases amongst vaccinated indivuduals. That is simply not what we saw here and there were 10,000 exposures (even more). That's also part of how they can test the efficacy (through establishing how many people were exposed in this outbreak, how many were vaccinated according to the percentages, and how many vaccinated individuals got the measles) the statistics just do not support something like 90 or 85% efficacy because there were not enough cases amongst vaccinated individuals to justify that low of a rate...

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:03 pm

nchr wrote:

Most of the adults closely exposed were young mothers.That doesn't prove "lifelong". Many of them were also parents of children who got measles, meaning they were constantly and actively exposed to live viral load for several successive days. Pointing to the fact that it's not a cut and dry equation, many factors come into play, such as viral load of exposure, etc etc etc.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:06 pm

nchr wrote:

There were some health care workers in a Scandinavian country whose titers were good but they were taking care of measles patients and caught measles but had mild cases.
I do believe in vaccines but it looks like the latest advice is to check immunity during adulthood because it can wear off. Obviously unless titers are checked after the first and second childhood doses, we don't really know what percentage were immune initially. Those numbers of 97% are obviously based on something but until a person is exposed, we don't know how immune he actually is.