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Recent measles
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 11 2019, 5:22 pm
nchr wrote:
Yes, go on ncbi- this has been tested. People do not make up statistics - they are based upon facts discovered during routine tests. Very bizarre. Also, you realize that if there was significant vaccine failure that we would have seen tens of thousands of measles cases, not the small amount we did, of which the vast majority of cases were limited to unvaccinated or under vaccinated individuals. I still dont think you should be required to vaccinate though.


One person who I spoke to in one of several health departments that I called said that simply passing a measles patient in a store or other public place would not be enough exposure to catch the disease; you would have to spend a few minutes in close proximity to the measles patient.
I think that most vaccinated children are immune but the cases in Detroit were middle aged adults who had been given one dose during childhood. They were sitting near the measles patient in shul. Why had no doctor ever questioned the vaccine status of us older adults? I pressed the issue even after I was initially told that my age made me immune but my titer said otherwise.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 11 2019, 5:38 pm
I looked up on ncbi how vaccine efficacy is estimated and they show math equations that only a genius can understand but it looked to me that those numbers are based on being part of an immune population.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 11 2019, 6:55 pm
Science mag.org has a very informative article about why some vaccines protect longer and better than others but I can't get it to copy. It is called How Long Do Vaccines Last. Really cool article if anyone can link it.

This other article says that measles vaccine wanes in 15% of people who only had one dose. Basically they may have been immune initially in childhood but are no longer protected as adults:


'Immunity can wear off over time': Doctors highlight undervaccination in adults

Some adults may need a vaccination booster for highly contagious infectious diseases
Amina Zafar - CBC News

Posted: April 12, 2019
Last Updated: April 12, 2019

PAKISTAN/Measles
Aysha, 4, suffered from measles, in Lahore, Pakistan, in 2013. Since the highly contagious viral disease is common outside of North America, adults who plan to travel may need a measles booster before flying. (Mohsin Raza/Reuters)
Vaccinations are commonly considered a childhood health issue, but if adults think they're protected, doctors say that's not always the case. Some adults may need a vaccination booster for highly contagious infectious diseases like measles.

Amid travel-related measles cases in British Columbia's Lower Mainland, New York City, New Jersey, California, Michigan, Washington state, as well as outbreaks in Africa, Asia, Europe and South America, some doctors are raising awareness about adults who may be inadvertently undervaccinated.

Many people are unaware that their immunity can wear off over time. People born in Canada between 1970 and 1996 may need an extra dose of the vaccine to protect themselves — particularly if they are planning to travel abroad.

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This week's news of an Ottawa cancer patient who contracted measles despite being vaccinated drew attention to the issue. In Jayda Kelsall's case, she'd been vaccinated against measles, but local public health officials told her some people with weakened immune systems can still be vulnerable to the virus.

Most other pathogens spread by droplets, meaning for instance you have to touch a contaminated surface and then your face. But measles is highly contagious: it can be spread to an unprotected person just by breathing in the same air as someone with the illness, said Dr. Jeff Kwong, a family physician at Toronto Western's family health team and a scientist at ICES, formerly the Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences.

Ottawa measles patient angry at anti-vaxxers
Measles is making a comeback. So how did we get here?
Measles most commonly causes fever, rash or a runny nose. Symptoms can also include tiny white spots in the mouth, followed by a characteristic blotchy rash three to seven days after the first symptoms appear.

"It can cause complications like pneumonia, infections in the brain and even death, and so that's why we want to prevent these infections as much as possible so that we can prevent these serious outcomes," Kwong said.

People born before 1970 are generally considered immune since measles infections were so common then. But those born in Canada after 1970 and before 1996 likely received only one dose of the vaccine that protects against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) and may not be fully protected.

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"What we know is that the immunity can wear off over time, so those people should really have a second dose," said Dr. Kimberly Wintemute, a family physician with the North York Family Health Team in Toronto.

Measles 'undoubtedly spreading'
In the mid-1990s, medical researchers realized the MMR immunity from a single dose wears off in about 15 per cent of people, Wintemute said. Now, such people are typically offered a blood test to check their immunity. A second shot of the vaccine was introduced for children in Canada in 1996-97.
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:36 pm
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
Most of the adults closely exposed were young mothers.That doesn't prove "lifelong". Many of them were also parents of children who got measles, meaning they were constantly and actively exposed to live viral load for several successive days. Pointing to the fact that it's not a cut and dry equation, many factors come into play, such as viral load of exposure, etc etc etc.


This isn't a disease that needs close exposure. It's airborne and lives in the air for up to 2 hours. My cousin, who does not vaccinate, knows that her child caught the measles from an infected individual who was in an elevator over an hour before my cousins child.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Mon, Nov 11 2019, 7:39 pm
nchr wrote:
This isn't a disease that needs close exposure. It's airborne and lives in the air for up to 2 hours. My cousin, who does not vaccinate, knows that her child caught the measles from an infected individual who was in an elevator over an hour before my cousins child.
yes for people who've never encountered the virus before, but that was exactly my point. Vaccinated adults may not be susceptible to casual brief encouters but may not prove to be immune to prolonged close repeated exposures (healthcare workers, caregivers)
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amother
Denim


 

Post Mon, Nov 11 2019, 8:30 pm
nchr wrote:
Are they all related? I'm just curious because it is very unusual. I do believe you though. Also, are you sure they had two? If they are older than 35 they probably did not but that would still be a high percentage.

Not at all related. One is a workmate's husband. Another is a cousin of mine. Another is my husband's brother. All in the age range of 20-30's
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ahfc




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 12 2019, 11:04 am
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
Not at all related. One is a workmate's husband. Another is a cousin of mine. Another is my husband's brother. All in the age range of 20-30's


A lot of people in their 30s only received 1 shot which is about 93% effective.

Also titers are misleading. I spoke to leading doctors in the field of immunology regarding this and it is recommended to get a 2nd shot if you have negative titers and only had one shot so you know you are as covered as possible. If you received two doses of vaccine and still have negative titers, it can mean one of two things- 1) that even though you have negative titers, YOU ARE STILL IMMUNE. This is because the test is not 100% reliable but if exposed to the actual measles your body still has memory cells and you will still mount an immune response despite the negative titers test. Studies have been done that demonstrate this. 2) You are part of the 3 percent that does not respond to vaccination and even if you get a 3rd dose it will not cause you to become immune. This is why it is so important that those around you vaccinate so it will not be spread around to the 3% of people that will not achieve immunity.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 12 2019, 11:29 am
ahfc wrote:
A lot of people in their 30s only received 1 shot which is about 93% effective.

Also titers are misleading. I spoke to leading doctors in the field of immunology regarding this and it is recommended to get a 2nd shot if you have negative titers and only had one shot so you know you are as covered as possible. If you received two doses of vaccine and still have negative titers, it can mean one of two things- 1) that even though you have negative titers, YOU ARE STILL IMMUNE. This is because the test is not 100% reliable but if exposed to the actual measles your body still has memory cells and you will still mount an immune response despite the negative titers test. Studies have been done that demonstrate this. 2) You are part of the 3 percent that does not respond to vaccination and even if you get a 3rd dose it will not cause you to become immune. This is why it is so important that those around you vaccinate so it will not be spread around to the 3% of people that will not achieve immunity.


Whether the titers are negative or positive doesn't mean as much as the body's response to the actual virus when exposed and apparently, there is no accurate way to predict it. People who have only had one dose should get another one because the immunity from one dose can wane.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Wed, Nov 13 2019, 2:47 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Whether the titers are negative or positive doesn't mean as much as the body's response to the actual virus when exposed and apparently, there is no accurate way to predict it. People who have only had one dose should get another one because the immunity from one dose can wane.

And immunity from the second dose can also wane.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 13 2019, 2:53 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
And immunity from the second dose can also wane.


The article that I tried to link but couldn't said that the immunity from 2 doses was permanent and the second article said that 1 dose wanes 15% of the time. Where did you find information that immunity from 2 doses wanes?
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