Guests | Imamother

amother

Blonde

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 2:18 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I respectfully disagree with your husband.

I don't feel that hosting guests comfortably means they can invent their own house rules at my expense, and that I just have to put up with it. And what's not hard for you may very well be much harder for me. I work full time, I don't afford alot of cleaning help, and I do what works for me.

My Rav always says that often when we set boundaries to the mitzvos we do, it enables us to do more mitzvos.

I bet there are some people who won't host guests because it presents too much hardship for them. This of course makes it hard for the Baalei Simcha who need guest space. IMVHO it's preferable to set boundaries - I'm happy to host for you, but please pass on that I cannot accommodate XYZ (no babysitting, no food in rooms, etc..) - than not host.

I gave out my guest space on Shabbos HaGadol with clear instructions that not only can no Chometz be brought to the rooms, but no food altogether as I would be using those rooms over Y"T for my own guests with no time other than to change the linen - and the Baalei Simcha were happy to have the space. I don't see it as a problem to set whatever house rules work for the hosts, and guests who need more comfort than that are welcome to find their own accommodations.

I'm so lucky that in my life I have a relative that reminds me of Henny Machliss, O'H. And you know what? It's not easy! It's not easy to host! But who promised you it had to be easy?

Yes, it would be nice that guests should be normal and behave normally, and treat your stuff with respect. And I went through a lot of my life behaving that way. If it wasn't working for me, it wasn't going to happen. And then I became close to this relative, and I see her doing things that are HARD. And she's not running around saying, "I need this boundary! Everyone has to behave a very particular way because mitzvos are about doing things that are only emotionally healthy per my therapist."

It's so refreshing. I mean, deeply deeply refreshing, because no one is like this anymore.
And don't get me wrong. There is no way I could ever behave like that. I couldn't do what she does, on a weekly basis. But she's the most amazing person, she's emotionally healthy (for those of us ready to call her some kind of shmatte), and she chooses to do it even though it's hard. And because I have her in my life, I can see what there is to strive towards. I can see that there's a goal out there, a lofty ideal.

Yes, on this site we offer the practical solutions for us mere mortals. But does that mean we dismiss the idea that we should TRY to do things that are right, just because they are hard?

I mean, by all means, feel free to vent. But there's real anger, it feels, under the surface of what the OP is saying. And is it super reasonable to expect that a guest room - where guests are kinda trapped in when they're not being hosted at a meal - must not eat? Year round? Maybe it's hours between meals? Maybe pareve chocolate isn't all that filling or enticing?

I just heard a shiur that said that after the boundless hosting that Avraham did, Hashem told him to leave. "Lech lecha." Go, FOR YOU. Now see what it feels like to be a guest, and the way you treat your guests will improve, and your mitzvah will improve.

singleagain

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 2:36 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Why must guest stay in their room? Why not invite them to nosh in your kitchen? Or relax on your couch? It doesn't have to be an all or nothing senaorio.

sub

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 3:03 pm

Amother blonde wrote
“And is it super reasonable to expect that a guest room - where guests are kinda trapped in when they're not being hosted at a meal - must not eat? Year round? Maybe it's hours between meals? Maybe pareve chocolate isn't all that filling or enticing?”

Those who host usually have cake, snacks, water, coffee
Kigel In the kitchen or dining area. There is no need for food in a bedroom.
Sleeping guests are not trapped. They usually spend the day with family, at the hall, shopping, shul ( depending on whether it’s shabbos or weekday).
I have been at the receiving end of hosting plenty of times and have only the utmost hakoras hatov. I will ask for guidelines and expectations and bring a nice bottle of wine and flowers or a candy platter if there are children.

amother

Lavender

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 4:04 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Thank you imorethanamother, allthingsblue, brown, and strawberry cola. I'm glad someone gets (appreciates?) my warped sense of humor.

I totally get your dry sense of humor down to the Law and Order references. I could match you guest for guest horror stories and have lots left over.

This is one mitzvah that is hard for me to do for strangers because of the lack of respect for free accommodations and the lack of respect for their hosts. I have been insulted and had my house and furniture insulted. It comes from a place of jealousy and envy. Who needs to bring that nastiness into their home?

I have been badgered by strangers needing accommodations for their guests - like I owe them.

clowny

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 4:32 pm

I have a guest room and it is occupied almost every single shabbos of the year for simchas. I personally think that it’s a bit off to ask guest not to eat at all. I have a small kitchenette with a small table and 2 chairs where they can eat. I often prepare some cakes and drinks. Now, eating in bed that’s a different story. In the 5 years that I’m hosting guests I never found any food in the bedroom area. In the event I would, that would not make me change any rules. I would just clean up, figure that These guests were not mentchlich and hope it doesn’t repeat itself. Guest do not have access to my part of the house because I have a door between the 2 which gets locked, and a private entrance from outside.

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 5:23 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

Or just bad manners?

amother

Blonde

Mon, Nov 11 2019, 5:27 pm

sub wrote:

Those who host usually have cake, snacks, water, coffee
Kigel In the kitchen or dining area. There is no need for food in a bedroom.
Sleeping guests are not trapped. They usually spend the day with family, at the hall, shopping, shul ( depending on whether it’s shabbos or weekday).
I have been at the receiving end of hosting plenty of times and have only the utmost hakoras hatov. I will ask for guidelines and expectations and bring a nice bottle of wine and flowers or a candy platter if there are children.

What? Usually when I'm out of town for a simcha, the place I'm staying didn't agree to host me in their kitchen. And they certainly don't have cakes and kugels displayed, waiting for me.

And how awkward is it to rely on your host to eat in their kitchen! I mean, some people are exceptionally nice, but most people just want to be left alone.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 12:33 pm

When dh and I were young and self-absorbed, we ate in guest rooms all the time. Dh has IBS and can't eat most "regular" Shabbos food, and I was vegetarian. We would pack tons of shelf-stable food to eat after the seudahs, while people were napping. Until I started making Pesach myself, it literally never occurred to me that there could be a problem. I still feel ashamed about it 20+ years later.

So hopefully some of your guests aren't total jerks, they may just be young and clueless. I think a nicely worded sign in the room would have been great, to help people realize what's mentchlich.

Side note: people who hosted us almost never invited us to use their kitchen, and to be honest, I don't offer it to my orchim either. I've had too many problems in the past where people treifed up the kitchen. But it's a problem if you're hungry and have nowhere to eat food that you brought. I don't really have a solution though.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 12:43 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Same. We've been hosted just a handful of times and I can think of only one time the hosts put out food, bowls, etc for my kids in the morning. The most awkward was when my step son's bar mitzvah was in the city where he lived and we had to be hosted. We had shabbos dinner and lunch at the shul but it was in the spring (long shabbos) and once lunch was over, my kids had nothing to eat or do for the rest of the day. We were literally just using their guest room. It was super uncomfortable. There was shalashudis at the shul but in that community it was just men who go, so yeah.

Another time, we were hosted and I had a toddler. We brought milk (it was chalav yisroel) for him and asked the host if we could leave it in their refrigerator. She seemed to be very put off by my request.

ETA - as a teen, I was hosted MANY times for NCSY shabbatons and then, oh boy did the hosts wine and dine us, even though we were fed by NCSY. But thats not what this thread is about.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 1:11 pm

watergirl wrote:

We have been hosted a lot and have hosted a lot. We never not had food put out for us, nor never not provided food for sleepover guests.

I had my neighbors' guests eat ALL my food prepared on Pesach. We went out to the seder. When we came back, this couple ate ALL our food for the day meals and all the food prepared for chol hamoed. It was a day and a half with us planning a long car ride after motzi yontiff. They said my food taste better. The next night, they broke into my freezer. I had little kids, so there was not that much food. This is one reason hosting strangers is so hard.

I don't like my house being left messy either. It isn't my idea of a relaxing Shabbos and yontiff cleaning up after strangers who don't know boundaries, nor show respect.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 1:16 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I'm so confused. Did this couple not go to a seder? They were in your home while you were at a seder - why? It was just a couple? How could two people eat 3 meals worth of food during the time they should have been at a seder? Are you sure they really had somewhere to go for the sedarim and YT meals?

ShishKabob

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 1:21 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

This is definitely one of the more extreme cases. Please let's not confuse this with being the exception rather than the rule. Sorry that you went through this. Sounds insane.