Putting fish and meat out at the same time?

amother

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 1:46 pm

I came from an outreach community and maybe that's why I never saw it done. Hardly anyone would know to keep it apart. Now I live in a frum community and I see all the time buffets - be it shabbos kiddush or just a party - with fish and meat being served at the same time. I guess the expectation is that if you're frum you know to get a new plate/ fork? Is this done where you live? Curious.
(P.S... my kids absent-mindedly make mistakes often and I wonder if even knowing adults do as well).

amother

Denim

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 1:47 pm

Yes definitely done. It’s not the same as meat and dairy. People know to use separate plates and forks.

ShishKabob

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 1:52 pm

I still don't think it's ok to be done like that. Unless the fish is plated ready to eat like with a skewer and so on and so is the meat.
I think people are not careful enough and are also not realizing that they didn't use a separate fork or didn't eat something or drink something in between.
It's a sakanah, not so much a kosher problem.

tichellady

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:24 pm

Not everyone holds that it’s an issue and if you do think it’s an issue you can just use a different fork and plate. I don’t see what the problem is.

cbsp

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:26 pm

tichellady wrote:

Not everyone holds that it’s an issue and if you do think it’s an issue you can just use a different fork and plate. I don’t see what the problem is.

Source? I'm genuinely curious...

amother

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:36 pm

tichellady wrote:

Not everyone holds that it’s an issue and if you do think it’s an issue you can just use a different fork and plate. I don’t see what the problem is.

Huh? You mean there are frum people comfortable doing "surf n turf"? Or do you mean they're not particular about using same utencils for both? Or.... what???

I genuinely thought this was basic and universally accepted. Is it really not?

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:42 pm

It’s my pet peeve
At my DCs chassunah I specifically asked for the fish to be put at a seperate buffet table.
They put it at the end of the table.
I physically took the platter back to the kitchen and told them not to put out the fish unless they put out a seperate table with utensils and plates

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:42 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Tichellady, it's not a halacha issue, it's more of a food safety thing.

Of course it's a halacha issue. In the shulchan aruch, I believe.

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:42 pm

I've never seen that at a sitdown meal. But I see it all the time at non-hamotzi kiddushes, where all the food is put out at once.

cbsp

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:47 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Tichellady, it's not a halacha issue, it's more of a food safety thing.

But it falls under the category of not allowed due to "v'nishmartem"

I'm curious which Rabbinic authority holds any other way (meaning, legit halachic source. Not "I decided it's superstition")

FranticFrummie

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:51 pm

I've always kept them separated, and everywhere I've been there has been a clear separation. I've never even seen meat and fish served at the same kiddush. Plated meals for a simcha, but that's it.

I was taught that when I clear the table, I take off every single thing that might have touched the fish, and to serve a drink of some sort, before bringing out the meat. Everyone I've been to for Shabbos meals does it the same way.

goodmorning

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 2:52 pm

The Magen Avraham suggests that it may no longer be dangerous in our days and our lands. On OC 173: ואפשר דבזמן הזה אין סכנה כ"כ דחזינן כמה דברים המוזכרים בגמ' שהם סכנה לרוח רעה ושאר דברים והאידנא אינו מזיק דנשתנו הטבעיות וגם הכל לפי טבע הארצות ועבי"ד סי' שט"ז ס"ג ובא"ע סימן קנ"ו וכ"כ הב"ח בשם הרמב"ם:

The Mishna Berura and Aruch HaShulchan both quote these words of the Magen Avraham.

Those are pretty legit halachic sources.

cbsp

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:03 pm

goodmorning wrote:

They quote him, but do they pasken that way?

SixOfWands

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:05 pm

I see it all the time at weddings and bnai mitzvot. There's inevitably a sushi station wedged in there between carving stations and little hot dogs.

You're just supposed to know to keep them separate, I guess. Although I really appreciate it when any fish is on little plates.

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:14 pm

My husband is a mashgiach and I know that in general caterers will not put out fish and meat on same table!
(yes at the same kiddush, so ppl do have to be careful on their own!)

goodmorning

Tue, Nov 12 2019, 3:53 pm

cbsp wrote:

They quote him, but do they pasken that way?

They quote without arguing.

(Not that the Magen Avraham is not a legit source on his own. Though I personally follow the opinions that we still do not mix the two, as do most people whom I know.)