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A frum family needs two incomes?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:25 am
I've heard this so many times over the years, but I always wondered how it's even possible. How can two parents both work full time, with the second one making enough money to actually come home with something after paying childcare, taxes, and other work related expenses?

I do know some families where both work full time, but they either have a full time nanny (obviously that's taking a huge chunk of one of their salaries) or they have much older kids.

As you might have guessed, this is my situation and I'm trying to figure out how in the world this is supposed to work. My husband's income is not enough, we truly do need two incomes but no matter how many times I rack my brains, I can't think of a way to actually make enough money for it to be worth it for me to work full time, plus I think the emotional toll on my children might be too high (my husband works more than full time and leaves at 6:00 am and comes home somewhere between 7 and 11 pm).

I wasn't foresighted enough to get a degree in a field with a very high potential income, and if I would join the workforce now, I would start at the bottom, with no guarantees that I would ever make too much more.

Am I missing something?

ETA: I said this later in the thread, but I did go back to school and am almost done. It's just starting that will be hard.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:28 am
Many people in this situation move OOT to a community with a lower cost of living. Is that an option for you?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:30 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
Many people in this situation move OOT to a community with a lower cost of living. Is that an option for you?


My main cost right now is tuition and that's not going to be lowered by moving OOT.
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:34 am
One of you have to increase your income. What is the number you need to be making to live comfortably? How far away are you from that? Those are the questions you have to ask first.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:39 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I've heard this so many times over the years, but I always wondered how it's even possible. How can two parents both work full time, with the second one making enough money to actually come home with something after paying childcare, taxes, and other work related expenses?

I do know some families where both work full time, but they either have a full time nanny (obviously that's taking a huge chunk of one of their salaries) or they have much older kids.

A frum family can live on one income if the income is high enough. But I don't think it's realistic to expect that the majority of frum married individuals will single handedly earn enough to support their families for the entire duration of their marriage, such that their wives never have to earn a single penny.

There are a lot of ways to divide up earning responsibility. It's not like there's only two choices: sole earner and two full-time workers. You also don't have to have the same distribution over your decades of marriage.

There are also very different kinds of full time work. The hours your husband is working, I would describe as fulltime-plus or more than full time. On the other hand, my relative is in a salaried union position that requires 35 work hours per week, allows one day per week of working from home, and permits employees to take one day off per week in the summer in exchange for working longer the other four weekdays. Both my relative and your husband are full time, but obviously have very different implications for one's home life.

Two demanding full-time-plus careers do usually require a nanny, but two full time jobs need not.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:41 am
small bean wrote:
One of you have to increase your income. What is the number you need to be making to live comfortably? How far away are you from that? Those are the questions you have to ask first.


Isn't that the point? I would love to increase my income, but not seeing how it's possible. It seems to me that one parent does have to work at a somewhat flexible job, or they have to hire a full time nanny, for this to work. And I'm getting a lot of guilt from family members why I'm not pulling in an income, but I just don't see how it's possible.

ETA: I do work, but it's part time, and it's not enough.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:45 am
I think sometimes 1 1/2 incomes also helps....
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:45 am
The women I know who both work and have young children usually work during school hours.

School jobs - administrative, teachers, assistants, seit, therapists
Office jobs that don't go late
Open their own business
Etc
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amother
Purple


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:46 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My main cost right now is tuition and that's not going to be lowered by moving OOT.


Can you work in the school you send your kids to?

Many ppl I know do that while their kids are in school to lower the burden of tuition. The salary is not a lot but the hours are directly in line with their children.

Ppl are assistants in the younger grades if they’re not made to be teachers.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:48 am
I think it pays if you got a good degree before having kids or while being a sahm.
Lots of people I know did that. Then you can get a good job and actually benefit from working full time.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:49 am
How much is your husband making for hours like that? Does he have higher earning potential? Can you work in a school and cover tuition with your salary?
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:56 am
You have to balance the costs.
So if both parents work FT then there are additional Bbsitting costs - do those cost negate the full time working? Usually not. Usually there’s a little extra coming in even after additional expenses to make the job worth it. If not, find a new job that pays more.

Some families have a FT and PT working parent to make ends meet. and that’s enough.

Or a high paying one FT and one SAH.

In my case, my husband works 2+ jobs to make up the income whilst I study in school.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:04 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My main cost right now is tuition and that's not going to be lowered by moving OOT.

Actually, very often tuition outside of the NY area IS less expensive- either because tuition is actually less, or because there are vouchers, or because there is a way to “pay back” the tuition by volunteering at the school or doing something for the school.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:14 am
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
I think it pays if you got a good degree before having kids or while being a sahm.
Lots of people I know did that. Then you can get a good job and actually benefit from working full time.


I actually did start a degree a few years ago, but I didn't finish because I don't see how it's going to help me. I would have to start off working very full time and it just wouldn't pay. I think.

Also, not sure how it would work - my kids would come home to nobody?
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:16 am
Ema of 4 wrote:
Actually, very often tuition outside of the NY area IS less expensive- either because tuition is actually less, or because there are vouchers, or because there is a way to “pay back” the tuition by volunteering at the school or doing something for the school.


Some kids are already high school and above, so they're already in their schools. They would stay even if we would move. I can negotiate with the elementary schools here, so that's not really my biggest expense, but my high school and above kids are all in different schools and some are very expensive (relative to our income).

Also, I'm thinking ahead to weddings and I have no idea how it's going to happen.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:21 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I actually did start a degree a few years ago, but I didn't finish because I don't see how it's going to help me. I would have to start off working very full time and it just wouldn't pay. I think.

Also, not sure how it would work - my kids would come home to nobody?

You should talk to women who work in that field, and ask them how their households run. That is the best way to explore this. Or start a spinoff about that field here.

Some suggested questions below, assuming women are comfortable talking to you about this generally.

- What is their family situation? Number and ages of kids?
- What hours do they work?
- What household responsibilities do their husbands handle?
- What household responsibilities, if any, do other family members like grandparents handle?
- What household responsibilities do they outsource?
- What do they handle themselves and how and when?
- How do they handle routine childcare? Sick kid care? Summer childcare? Childcare during work-related travel?
- What potential is there for part-time work starting out? What about for experienced people after some years?
- What related fields are they qualified to enter?
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:22 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Some kids are already high school and above, so they're already in their schools. They would stay even if we would move. I can negotiate with the elementary schools here, so that's not really my biggest expense, but my high school and above kids are all in different schools and some are very expensive (relative to our income).

Also, I'm thinking ahead to weddings and I have no idea how it's going to happen.

Do you have kids under Kindergarten age?
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hello 1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:28 am
How about trying to get a job in a school.
Either in the office or as an assistant or a teacher.
Even though the salary is low, a lot of schools give a reduction in tuition costs and you would be on your kids schedules.
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dorothy1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:35 am
I agree with you OP.
I feel like at least one parent needs to have a flexible schedule when kids are young. There’s no way around it.

I would try to think of a way to make money that’s not really time bound . Even a part time job doing data entry from home. Jobs like sheitel macher, tutor etc are also good for this. But I know that’s easier said than done. I quit my job bc we were not able to manage our kids with both having “careers”. We didn’t want a full time nanny
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amother
Natural


 

Post Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:38 am
OP, I'm afraid you're right, the math just doesn't add up. If you don't have a degree that gives you good earning potential, it's not worth it to hire babysitters and give them half or most of the money your earning. Bh your husband works but it seems like he's not making big bucks either. I don't think your situation is as uncommon as you might think. What do many people do? I have a feeling tons of people in town are getting help from parents. An in town family with 4/5 kids has a mortgage, big tuition expense, camps, and simchas. I don't know what the pre tax income needs to be, but it's up there. I'm estimating at least 150k. Many families make that money, but many don't. How are they surviving in town? I'm guessing most are asking mom and dad.
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