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A frum family needs two incomes?
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amother




Indigo


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 5:49 pm
I want to quit working. If husband doesn't help at all at home it's easier for him to put in over time and that could work for everyone
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nicole81




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:27 pm
I got 3 degrees while I had kids... For my BA, I went to classes on Sundays, evenings, and took some online. My 2 MS degrees were done in the evenings while I worked full time during the day. I don't know what your age is, but I didn't even get my BA until I was 27 and then pursued further degrees in an unrelated area.

I get what you're saying about the toll on the kids, but as a mother of kids age 1-15, I can say that preteens and teens need so much more than little ones.

Yes, when I had a babysitter for 10 hours a day with my first two and was running myself ragged in ft work and ft school, I came home with pennies. But with increasing work experience and education came an increase in salary and benefits. (Now I have a ft sitter for my babies, pay 2 grade school and 2 HS tuitions, a mortgage in Brooklyn, and BH come out plenty ahead.)
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r1




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 8:32 pm
nicole81 wrote:
I got 3 degrees while I had kids... For my BA, I went to classes on Sundays, evenings, and took some online. My 2 MS degrees were done in the evenings while I worked full time during the day. I don't know what your age is, but I didn't even get my BA until I was 27 and then pursued further degrees in an unrelated area.

I get what you're saying about the toll on the kids, but as a mother of kids age 1-15, I can say that preteens and teens need so much more than little ones.

Yes, when I had a babysitter for 10 hours a day with my first two and was running myself ragged in ft work and ft school, I came home with pennies. But with increasing work experience and education came an increase in salary and benefits. (Now I have a ft sitter for my babies, pay 2 grade school and 2 HS tuitions, a mortgage in Brooklyn, and BH come out plenty ahead.)


Curious how old your kids were when you were 27 (started school)? And what field you ultimately work in?

No pressure to answer, I’m 25 and getting frustrated with the mediocre pay, opportunities and overwhelming nature of the field I’m in. I have a masters but would really love to pursue something else and am curious as to how others did it.

To the op, realize that nothing changes if you don’t change anything. A degree is a great investment of time!
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amother




Burlywood


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:23 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
My main cost right now is tuition and that's not going to be lowered by moving OOT.


Many schools give tuition discount if you work in the school.
Check and see if your school offers that
Perhaps you can be an aide for pre-school, or work there as a secretary or in the lunchroom
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amother




Cyan


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:28 pm
I had to go back to work just to cover all the expenses including tuition. Had to change to a different job with a longer commute and better pay. No nanny or cleaning help.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:32 pm
amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:
Many schools give tuition discount if you work in the school.
Check and see if your school offers that
Perhaps you can be an aide for pre-school, or work there as a secretary or in the lunchroom


My school doesn't, but anyway I mentioned before that I have kids high school and above as well. Five different schools altogether.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:32 pm
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
I had to go back to work just to cover all the expenses including tuition. Had to change to a different job with a longer commute and better pay. No nanny or cleaning help.


So how did you cover childcare?
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nicole81




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:38 pm
r1 wrote:
Curious how old your kids were when you were 27 (started school)? And what field you ultimately work in?

No pressure to answer, I’m 25 and getting frustrated with the mediocre pay, opportunities and overwhelming nature of the field I’m in. I have a masters but would really love to pursue something else and am curious as to how others did it.

To the op, realize that nothing changes if you don’t change anything. A degree is a great investment of time!


I finished at 27, when my youngest were 2 and 3. I'm in (public) education administration. It's definitely not for the faint at heart, but I love it and the pay, contract, and union and city benefits are great.
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nicole81




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:46 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So how did you cover childcare?


I'm not the poster you quoted, but I can tell you that for my last degree, I was going through a divorce and had my kids with me full time, so I took out tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, in excess of tuition, to pay for childcare and basic living expenses. I wouldn't have made it those first 2 years without student loan money, but by 2 years later, the loans had already paid for themselves.
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 9:52 pm
nicole81 wrote:
I'm not the poster you quoted, but I can tell you that for my last degree, I was going through a divorce and had my kids with me full time, so I took out tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, in excess of tuition, to pay for childcare and basic living expenses. I wouldn't have made it those first 2 years without student loan money, but by 2 years later, the loans had already paid for themselves.


I hear you. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm terrified to take on more debt.
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amother




Coral


Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 10:24 pm
amother [ Amber ] wrote:
You want to know numbers, nobody can do that for you without knowing your salary, lifestyle, etc. What’s important is that if you want to, you can make it work. You have big kids who can help fill in with child care and help around the house. Assuming DH works full time and you already work part time, you’re probably not on programs so it’s not like the loss of programs should be taken into account.

I’ll throw some numbers: Let’s say you need a babysitter to fill in 2 hours in the afternoon between when the little and big kids get home, at $15/hour that’s $30/day. Add 6 hours of cleaning help/week at the same rate, you’re looking at an added cost of $210/week. You may say it’s not enough cleaning help, I don’t know your life. But do you really think that even with a low paying job, you won’t be bringing home more than $210/week?


At minimum wage, your take home will be about $200 a week, perhaps more if you are claiming more on your W2, but probably not very much more. Generally, if you make minimum wage, you can't afford to pay anyone to do anything for you, because you will have to pay them at least as much as you are making. This is the problem that so many families have.
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amother




OP


Post  Fri, Nov 15 2019, 8:28 am
dorothy1 wrote:
Honestly I don’t think 150 is enough , especially since such a family wouldn’t get any programs .

They’ll make about 110 after taxes
90k after insurance (that’s not accounting for any private therapies which most families will need at one point )
5 kids - 50k after tuition
20k after mortgage
10k after car payments and car insurance

10 is definitely not enough for all other bills, clothing , food, camp expenses, and the millions of other things families need

It sounds absurd that 150k wouldn’t cut it but the Math is there


A lot of you are saying the math here is wrong.

I'm curious which number above is off? I've spoken to people IRL, and many think the same way - that you need at least 150k, preferrably 200k.

My numbers are a little different, everyone's is, but the end result is mostly the same, I think.

My insurance costs are lower, b'h, but I do pay out of pocket for things like glasses and dental.

My mortgage is lower b'h, but my tuition is about that.

I think 10k for car payments, insurance, and gas and tolls is reasonable - we did the numbers one month and were very surprised as to how much we were paying (we both drive older cars, but we do need two where we live).

I definitely spend more than 10k a year on food and clothing, camp expenses is another 4 to 5K, at least. So 25k right there.

She didn't include utilities - ours is probably around 5k.

And she didn't include money for childcare - if both spouses are working, then you need to spend money on childcare, and it could be a significant chunk of one salary.

And she didn't include money put aside for savings or retirement, and especially as you get older and think about weddings and things like that, you really need to have that saved up.

I'm not even adding the numbers, but I know it's going to be a ridiculous number.

So tell me which number is off? What am I missing?

ETA: Oh, and I forgot to add work related expenses. Traveling back and forth to work can be expensive. It is for us.
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amother




OP


Post  Fri, Nov 15 2019, 8:43 am
small bean wrote:
Yes I do, I have retirement as well. But that's not that point. I need to increase my salary or my husband to as my kids grow. As far as I know my parents were never in debt either, besides a mortgage, they refinanced as needed. They married 11 children. I dont think this should be normal.

You still haven't said what your shortfall per month is. I think knowing that number is the first step. You can't say, no job will make as much as I need right now. Do you need 5k more every month? 10k more? More?


You know, life isn't so simple. Of course I sat down with a pen and paper many times and figured out how much I need. But life doesn't work that way - just because you need x amount doesn't mean that you will get a job paying x amount. In any case, as was mentioned in this thread, a frum family needs over 150k a year in order to survive, more if they want to save for the future. Is that realistic for most?

Also, I have no idea how your parents married off 11 children without going into debt. They must be very wealthy. I know my husband and I both come from tiny families and our parents struggled tremendously.

Anyway, for me personally, I did the cheshbon and it's not about a monthly amount, it's about paying up debts and saving for the future. (My debts are from family members, so no interest, but OTOH I want to pay it up as quickly as possible.) I hate to say that I need a lot of money right now, but that's what it is.
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