Home

Why do people who know better say "eat by" / "stay by"?
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:50 am
I'm a BT and it fascinates me that so many frum people use phrases like "eat by" and "stay by." This includes many people who were born in America, were raised by American-born native English speaker parents, and have strong secular educations (attended prestigious universities, grad degrees), etc. A lot of these people aren't even super-yeshivish types who are constantly speaking "yeshivish-ese" (e.g., "mamesh this, mamesh that").

I know that these phrases come from a literal translation of the Yiddish. But it's obviously not correct English grammar, and I'm sure most of these highly educated people know that it's not correct grammar. I just find it really strange that frum folks have managed to keep with this usage. I get why frum folks would want to retain various Yiddishisms / Hebrewisms, I don't get why, if they're already speaking English, they would want to use incorrect English.

I'm just curious for some insight. Not the most important question in the world.
Back to top

amother




Black
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:51 am
We tend to absorb speech patterns of the people around us.

Also, many people just don't know it's wrong.

That's one of the grammar mistakes that I allow myself to make. I'm a stickler for certain rules, but this is one that I let slide.
Back to top

amother




Ecru
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:52 am
Total pet peeve of mine. It’s frum speak. It’s the Yiddish translation. It’s terrible. Makes me cringe
Back to top

amother




Blush
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 11:58 am
Yiddish is not the only language that is structured that way, I've seen native speakers of a number of other languages (including Hebrew) who do that. But yeah, Yiddish /Hebrew is likely the reason it persists in among frum people.

I will say this, I switch depending on who I'm talking to (not even consciously, it just automatically happens). I tell my frum neighbor "I'm staying by my parents for Pesach" but then tell people at work that "I'm staying with my parents for Passover."
Back to top

singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:02 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
We tend to absorb speech patterns of the people around us.


This, not quite the same, but once done I can't home from camp and pronounced carrot with a mid west accent, my sibs poked fun. But I had heard it like that all summer
Back to top

amother




Wine
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:04 pm
I don't get what that phrase means. Can you give an example in a sentence?
Back to top

miami85




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:05 pm
Isnt it also Hebrew? We say "eitzel" which means "by/about".
As much as I value grammar, and proper speech, in the US we live in such a multi-cultural society any there are linguisms from other languages that have seeped into English, why can't we have our own also?

Also as someone who is used to the subtleties and nuances of language. Stay "At" sounds harsher and more of a "taking" attitude, where as I'm staying "by" someone it sounds more . like they invited me and are welcoming hosts.


Last edited by miami85 on Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

ShishKabob




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:05 pm
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
Total pet peeve of mine. It’s frum speak. It’s the Yiddish translation. It’s terrible. Makes me cringe
Why is it so terrible?
People do it all the time especially if they have an equal second language.
Back to top

amother




Papaya
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:07 pm
When I joined this forum a few years ago, it was the first time I came across this usage of the word 'by' (used instead of 'at').

I only ever see it on the forum, along with a few other glaring grammar mistakes. Yes I find it annoying.
Back to top

amother




Papaya
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:08 pm
miami85 wrote:
Isnt it also Hebrew? We say "eitzel" which means "by/about".
As much as I value grammar, and proper speech, in the US we live in such a multi-cultural society any there are linguisms from other languages that have seeped into English, why can't we have our own also?


I live with a lot of Israelis, and they have their own English mistakes, but for some reason 'by' isn't one of them.
Back to top

amother




Papaya
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:11 pm
ShishKabob wrote:
Why is it so terrible?
People do it all the time especially if they have an equal second language.


I'm not the one who said it was terrible; I just find it annoying.

If it's someone's second language, that's one thing. But most of the people on this forum have English as a native language. I am far from perfect in my English (in fact it's not really my mother tongue), but every time I read this forum it's frustrating to realize how poorly educated some native speakers are in their native tongue.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:11 pm
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
I don't get what that phrase means. Can you give an example in a sentence?


What phrase—eating by?

I’m eating by my parents this week, but I’m staying by my in-laws down the block. Ouch, that makes my teeth hurt. In proper English it would be I’m eating AT my parents and staying AT my inlaws.

In proper English, you might eat by the park, iow beside the park, or have a house by the sea, iow on the beach next to the sea. Often emphasized as “right by”, meaning really close beside. The bus stop is right by the school, the house is right by the sea, my mom lives right by my in-laws. Near them, not in their house.
Back to top

miami85




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:11 pm
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
I live with a lot of Israelis, and they have their own English mistakes, but for some reason 'by' isn't one of them.


But isn't that the literal translation of the phrase in Hebrew? "Ani ochelet eitzel bnei dodim sheli." Hebrew doesn't really have an "at"
Back to top

amother




Slateblue
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:12 pm
When everyone around you speaks this way, it somehow sticks.
Back to top

amother




Silver
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:14 pm
It's like "axing" a question. It's a way of declaring that you are part of a group. Using "by" instead of "at" comes off as ignorant, but I think that the people who use it don't mind.
Back to top

amother




Wine
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:15 pm
zaq wrote:
What phrase—eating by?

I’m eating by my parents this week, but I’m staying by my in-laws down the block. Ouch, that makes my teeth hurt. In proper English it would be I’m eating AT my parents and staying AT my inlaws.

In proper English, you might eat by the park, iow beside the park, or have a house by the sea, iow on the beach next to the sea. Often emphasized as “right by”, meaning really close beside. The bus stop is right by the school, the house is right by the sea, my mom lives right by my in-laws. Near them, not in their house.


Thanks!
Back to top

amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:16 pm
It's not just frum people. I didn't grow up frum, and I have some incorrect expressions that I use in speech casually with friends or in texts, that I wouldn't use in a formal speaking situation or in a piece of writing in the workplace.

I'm sure that there are lots of academic articles that would shed light on your question. Maybe someone here can point you to them.
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:20 pm
zaq wrote:
What phrase—eating by?

I’m eating by my parents this week, but I’m staying by my in-laws down the block. Ouch, that makes my teeth hurt. In proper English it would be I’m eating AT my parents and staying AT my inlaws.

In proper English, you might eat by the park, iow beside the park, or have a house by the sea, iow on the beach next to the sea. Often emphasized as “right by”, meaning really close beside. The bus stop is right by the school, the house is right by the sea, my mom lives right by my in-laws. Near them, not in their house.

It makes me crazy also. But not as crazy as “costed”.
Back to top

ShishKabob




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:22 pm
watergirl wrote:
It makes me crazy also. But not as crazy as “costed”.

Gotta love this!
Back to top

amother




Papaya
 

Post  Thu, Nov 14 2019, 12:25 pm
miami85 wrote:
But isn't that the literal translation of the phrase in Hebrew? "Ani ochelet eitzel bnei dodim sheli." Hebrew doesn't really have an "at"


If they don't know how to use 'at', they will often use 'in'. Not 'by'.

To use your example, they might say:
I am eating in my cousins' home.
or
I eat in my cousins'.

Or they just omit the preposition altogether.
Back to top
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 9 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

Related Topics Replies Last Post
[ Poll ] Coronavirus -- Should People Infected be Allowed to FlY 7 Yesterday at 4:20 pm View last post
by sky
What type of women's shabbos shoes are "in"?
by amother
26 Thu, Feb 20 2020, 1:15 pm View last post
BDE Kayla Rus A"H bas Bunim Tuvia 710 Thu, Feb 20 2020, 2:57 am View last post
Looking for a place to stay in South Florida over shabbos 0 Thu, Feb 20 2020, 1:31 am View last post
DD constantly scratching "down there"
by amother
29 Thu, Feb 20 2020, 12:45 am View last post

Jump to: