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Why do people who know better say "eat by" / "stay by"?
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 10:41 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
It really does. It stigmatizes.


I disagree obviously, but this isn't going anywhere. As an aside, your usage of the word stigmatizes is incorrect. I personally couldn't care less and am not judging you for it.
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iyar




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 10:54 pm
I can’t believe I missed these 8 pages on this great topic.
For the record- I do sometimes stay by my relatives and eat by my friends. And make other mistakes too.
I’m sorry I can’t answer op’s original question- why? Not really sure. Some bad habits die hard I guess.
What makes me crazy is when imamothers try to loose weight. That one just sets my teeth on edge.
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malki2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 10:57 pm
It’s called Yeshivishe Reid, Yeshivishe Shproch.
Takeh epis grateh ah gevaldike zach!
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amother
Pink


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:03 pm
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
I disagree obviously, but this isn't going anywhere. As an aside, your usage of the word stigmatizes is incorrect. I personally couldn't care less and am not judging you for it.


It stigmatizes the speaker. Is that better? The end of the sentence is understood. It stigmatizes the speaker as uneducated and not smart enough to use conventional English. It sounds foolish in the secular world.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:17 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
It stigmatizes the speaker. Is that better? The end of the sentence is understood. It stigmatizes the speaker as uneducated and not smart enough to use conventional English. It sounds foolish in the secular world.

No, the listener is responsible for his or her own bigoted attitude toward non-conventional English.
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amother
Pink


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:24 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
No, the listener is responsible for his or her own bigoted attitude toward non-conventional English.


So we are in agreement. The listener stigmatizes the speaker and finds the speaker uneducated and not smart. They do that because speakers who say "eat by" presents themselves as uneducated and not smart enough to speak conventional English.

It sounds foolish and unprofessional. You are kidding yourself if you think speaking like that doesn't stigmatize you.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:31 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
It stigmatizes the speaker. Is that better? The end of the sentence is understood. It stigmatizes the speaker as uneducated and not smart enough to use conventional English. It sounds foolish in the secular world.


Your use of foolish here doesn't work.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:34 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
So we are in agreement. The listener stigmatizes the speaker and finds the speaker uneducated and not smart. They do that because speakers who say "eat by" presents themselves as uneducated and not smart enough to speak conventional English.

It sounds foolish and unprofessional. You are kidding yourself if you think speaking like that doesn't stigmatize you.


Please note, I was the poster who commented on your usage, not amother Pink Aubergine, although I agree with her.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:35 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
It stigmatizes the speaker. Is that better? The end of the sentence is understood. It stigmatizes the speaker as uneducated and not smart enough to use conventional English. It sounds foolish in the secular world.


No. The word stigmatize(s) should be preceded by the verb to be, or 1 of its forms. "It" doesn't stigmatize, whatever "it" is; rather, something or someone IS, WAS, or has been stigmatized.

It's an important distinction because it clarifies, as per your example, that it is the listener who is doing the stigmatizing.

Yes, your point was understood as it was, but the usage was incorrect.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Jan 15 2020, 11:39 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
You are kidding yourself if you think speaking like that doesn't stigmatize you.


--doesn't cause you to be stigmatized

As for your point, lots of things bring out an ugly side in people. Wearing a yarmulke, skirts below the knees, leaving work early on winter Friday afternoons, etc. will cause some people to make incorrect assumptions about others' intelligence, education or whatnot.
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Amelia Bedelia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 8:10 am
amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
My son's spelling homework today contained the sentence "Jane sat by us at lunch"!

I think it's correct. "Jane sat near us by lunch."

Eta: Oy! I just noticed my mistake! I don't even talk that way.

I meant to say: "Jane sat near us at lunch."


Last edited by Amelia Bedelia on Sat, Jan 18 2020, 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:43 am
Amelia Bedelia wrote:
I think it's correct. "Jane sat near us by lunch."


Jane sat with us at lunch.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 9:59 am
amother [ Salmon ] wrote:
Jane sat with us at lunch.

Yes, but she also sat near you. There is not always a single correct way of saying something. Also, the context may be more nuanced. Maybe Jane sat near you at lunch, but wasn't sitting with you; she was facing the other way and talking to someone else.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 10:04 am
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
Yes, but she also sat near you. There is not always a single correct way of saying something. Also, the context may be more nuanced. Maybe Jane sat near you at lunch, but wasn't sitting with you; she was facing the other way and talking to someone else.


Okay. Jane sat near us at lunch.

The word "by" in both the student's homework and Ameilia Bedilia's example is 'at issue'.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 10:05 am
amother [ Salmon ] wrote:
Okay. Jane sat near us at lunch.

The word "by" in both the student's homework and Ameilia Bedilia's example is 'at issue'.

You haven't explained why you're not okay with that usage.
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amother
Pink


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 10:13 am
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
No. The word stigmatize(s) should be preceded by the verb to be, or 1 of its forms. "It" doesn't stigmatize, whatever "it" is; rather, something or someone IS, WAS, or has been stigmatized.

It's an important distinction because it clarifies, as per your example, that it is the listener who is doing the stigmatizing.

Yes, your point was understood as it was, but the usage was incorrect.


Anyone who says "eat by" immediately sounds like an uneducated slow person in the secular world. It's laughable and nothing to do with white shirt and black pants. Most people would not identify the weird usage of the word "by" as being an orthodox use.

TBH it sounds stupid.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 10:23 am
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
Anyone who says "eat by" immediately sounds like an uneducated slow person in the secular world. It's laughable and nothing to do with white shirt and black pants. Most people would not identify the weird usage of the word "by" as being an orthodox use.

TBH it sounds stupid.


Are you interested in the impression you make by issuing generalized statments about "the secular world"?
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 10:27 am
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
You haven't explained why you're not okay with that usage.


I'm "Okay" with the usage. Its just not textbook English.
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OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 12:29 pm
amother [ Pink ] wrote:
Anyone who says "eat by" immediately sounds like an uneducated slow person in the secular world.


LOL no. Believe me, smart people don't rely on grammar pedantry to identify other smart people.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Thu, Jan 16 2020, 2:30 pm
OOTforlife wrote:
LOL no. Believe me, smart people don't rely on grammar pedantry to identify other smart people.


Thanks for making the exact point I was trying to make only far more succinctly!
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