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Working Mom's Raise Their Kids
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:36 pm
There's very little helpful research on the whole at-home parent vs two working parents thing, because 1. there's such a huge range of childcare arrangements, 2. what are we even looking for?

Is the child home alone, or at a good babysitter, or at a mostly-OK babysitter, or with grandma, or with the guy mom's been dating for the past two months, or...?

Does proving that at-home parenting is worthwhile mean that we need to show that kids are smarter, or have a better relationship with their parents, or happier... ? Happier when - today, next year, at age 40...?

It's a hard topic to cover, and even studies that try to get around that by looking at a fairly narrow aspect of the question can be wildly different. Like, do school-aged children who come home to an empty house experience more anxiety than kids supervised by an adult? No. Or maybe yes. It depends who you ask.

The good news is, this means the mommy wars can continue FOREVER Twisted Evil
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 3:42 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Because they do.

You want people to say that you're a better mother because you don't work outside the home. Not only is that just plain old not true, its most deinitely an attack, and absolutely lacks respect for others.

No, she wants people to respect that caring for children for an 8-hour workday is work.

That's why working parents pay for daycare. Because it's an actual job. If someone was home with two children for 8 hours and did zero housework in that time, she still did something.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 4:11 pm
ora_43 wrote:
No, she wants people to respect that caring for children for an 8-hour workday is work.

That's why working parents pay for daycare. Because it's an actual job. If someone was home with two children for 8 hours and did zero housework in that time, she still did something.


I don't think that's what she intended, but I can fully agree with you that SAHMs are working.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 4:16 pm
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
I don't believe that anyone said that sahms are better mothers, but please give up on the idea that those who work full time do EVERYTHING that sahms do. If they did, they would be operating on a couple of hours of sleep a night. They may get done everything they feel they need to do, but that is not the same thing.

signed: someone who (gasp!) doesn't have the "guts" to use my actual fake name.


There was actually one point in my life that I was working 9:00-3:00 plus two hours of travel. So I came home with my baby and toddler at 4:00 pm. And I think I had no help at the time. Not even a bit of cleaning help. And my job had a lot of prep time to do at home. And no, I really was not sleeping until I got so sick I was on the verge of collapse. My grandfather saw what was happening to me and he paid for a mother’s helper for me for four days a week. As someone who’s been a combination of all the types of moms, working outside the home if you can’t afford a decent amount of help is MUCH HARDER.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 4:30 pm
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
I don't believe that anyone said that sahms are better mothers, but please give up on the idea that those who work full time do EVERYTHING that sahms do. If they did, they would be operating on a couple of hours of sleep a night. They may get done everything they feel they need to do, but that is not the same thing.

signed: someone who (gasp!) doesn't have the "guts" to use my actual fake name.


I definitely don't think that working moms do everything that SAHM's do. But a large part of those things aren't about raising children. I don't think doing my own dishes or cleaning my own toilets has any impact on the question of whether or how I raise my kids. My kids have no idea and could care less whether I ironed their shirts, or a cleaning lady did it.

Personally, I think I would be a substantially worse mother if I stayed home. I know some people obviously could never understand that but denigrating working moms isn't going to get you anywhere.
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amother
Blue


 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:15 pm
This is an ouch thread for me. I work very part time and I am falling apart. And I dont have that many kids. Good for you supermoms. Was that your point? Not everyone can work full time and cook and do laundry, groceries, appointments, play with their kids, do homework, put them to bed.....
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:30 pm
amother [ Blue ] wrote:
This is an ouch thread for me. I work very part time and I am falling apart. And I dont have that many kids. Good for you supermoms. Was that your point? Not everyone can work full time and cook and do laundry, groceries, appointments, play with their kids, do homework, put them to bed.....


Im sorry you're hurting.
To reiterate. I am not bragging or calling myself supermom. Maybe I'm also falling apart.
I do what I do because I have no choice. Rent, tuition, utilities, food, insurance all needs to happen. So I work.
Maybe if I stopped working, my kids would do even better? Who knows! Probably not, since we don't have a real safety net. And even in Lakewood with cheaper tuition, I have to pay 20k a year for 5 kids. And I still have to buy food, clothing, and pay at least $1200/month for a cheap 2-3 bedroom apartment.
I'm not saying I'm amazing for working.
I'm simply saying stop with the attitude that I'm "less than" as a mother because they go to playgroup.
Even if my kids adored their babysitters, even if some of their diapers were changed not by a parent. It doesn't make me less than a mother or a less competent mother.
(Btw, my youngest is 3. So even if I didn't work, I'd still be sending them all out for at least a few hours each day.)
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:39 pm
ora_43 wrote:
There's very little helpful research on the whole at-home parent vs two working parents thing, because 1. there's such a huge range of childcare arrangements, 2. what are we even looking for?

Is the child home alone, or at a good babysitter, or at a mostly-OK babysitter, or with grandma, or with the guy mom's been dating for the past two months, or...?

Does proving that at-home parenting is worthwhile mean that we need to show that kids are smarter, or have a better relationship with their parents, or happier... ? Happier when - today, next year, at age 40...?

It's a hard topic to cover, and even studies that try to get around that by looking at a fairly narrow aspect of the question can be wildly different. Like, do school-aged children who come home to an empty house experience more anxiety than kids supervised by an adult? No. Or maybe yes. It depends who you ask.

The good news is, this means the mommy wars can continue FOREVER Twisted Evil


To the bolded, Or with dad. Many, maybe most ladies I know who work very long hours have a husband with far more flexible hours and who is more present in the home. This thread seems to be assuming that the father is not part of the picture.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:46 pm
Laiya wrote:
To the bolded, Or with dad. Many, maybe most ladies I know who work very long hours have a husband with far more flexible hours and who is more present in the home. This thread seems to be assuming that the father is not part of the picture.


Maybe the women who work ft/more than ft.
I work 9:30-3:30. That's just 27 hours a week. Most of my friends and neighbors work similar hours.
Our husbands work more 40-50 hours/week plus commute. Average man in my life works 8hrs a day plus a 2 1/2 hour daily commute. Some work more like 9/10 hours a week a Friday remote. Practically including the commute, the husbands are out 7-7, 7-8, even 7-9. Not counting minyan.
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doodlesmom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 8:53 pm
Looking around the fact is that there are all types of moms, lazy ones, supermoms, moms who prioritize differently etc., and it has nothing to do with whether they work or not.

From my own look around I found that Working moms who struggle financially tend to work the hardest since they don't have money to pay for conveniences or shortcuts even if they work.

A parent who works part time-can definitely raise their family in a way that work doesn't affect the kids as much, (I will never forget when my son asked me to pick up something for him while he was at school, and I reminded him that I would be at work then, and he was like-I totally forgot that you work.)

A parent who works full time though, can be an amazing parent, and make sure that its quality over quantity, but work will definitely be a very defining part of the family dynamics.
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Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:09 pm
keym wrote:
Maybe the women who work ft/more than ft.
I work 9:30-3:30. That's just 27 hours a week. Most of my friends and neighbors work similar hours.
Our husbands work more 40-50 hours/week plus commute. Average man in my life works 8hrs a day plus a 2 1/2 hour daily commute. Some work more like 9/10 hours a week a Friday remote. Practically including the commute, the husbands are out 7-7, 7-8, even 7-9. Not counting minyan.


Right, so I'm referring to moms who are working 40-50 hours per week, their husbands tend to either work from home, have flexible hours, etc.

Honestly, based on your hours, you're home for supper, homework, catching up on their day...When are your kids missing you? You're pretty much there for them, especially if they're all in school. Not to say it's easy, it's quite hard, but you're getting as close as possible to managing both worlds.

I think this is a very different conversation than a mother who is out the door before her kids leave in the morning, and gets home just as they're going to bed.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:10 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Because they do.

You want people to say that you're a better mother because you don't work outside the home. Not only is that just plain old not true, its most deinitely an attack, and absolutely lacks respect for others.


I think for me it’s just not about other ppl- I am a better mother and housekeeper when I am home, when I am working I manage to do a lot less. I work PT. My sister works FT+ and does a lot more than me, both at work and on the home front.

We are just all different people!
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:35 pm
not reading the whole thread.

SAHM are great. I am super envious and would love to have that luxury.

I just dont.

I work more than 40 hours a week and my life is usually in shambles. I dont have a nanny. I send to a babysitter. I have 3 hours of cleaning help a week. Everything else is on me and hubby.

I do the best I can. I wish I had more time with my kids. The babysitter who is watching 6 other toddlers and babies is not a substitute for my responsibilities to my family.

I wish people would stop judging.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:42 pm
keym wrote:
I'm sorry.
I'm getting triggered from some other threads that pop up with the assumptions that a woman who works doesn't pour her heart and soul into her kids. That a working woman off loads all responsibility onto a nanny and cleaning lady.
ITS NOT TRUE.
I'm not knocking SAHM. If you can make it work, kol hakovod.
But I work. 9:30-3:30.
I was up at 6. Put up supper in the crock pot. Did 3 loads of laundry. Got 5 kids dressed, packed up, on busses and to playgroups.
Then I went to work.
During my 20 minutes sandwich break, I Scheduled 2 dentist appointments, spoke to a therapist and Rebbi.
After work, I have 2 pick up 2 kids from school, run with them to the grocery, run home in time to meet my older kids busses.
Then comes supper, homework, baths, bed, cleanup, folding all the laundry I did this morning, spend time with kids, more homework.
Today is an easier day.
Thursday I do all my cooking for Shabbos.
Sundays, I'd love to fill my freezer, but I also have all errands, appointments. (I choose Dr, dentist, eye Dr, therapists who have Sun appointments.)

So yeah. I just do much the same is shorter time.

I don't know what I want.
Maybe a vent. Maybe just to be acknowledged.
I think I'm just tired of hearing IRL and here how much easier I have it because the nanny and housekeeper do everything. Hint. They do because I am they.


Just want to say I'm a SAHM and you did so so so much more than I did today (not that you need the validation - I know that isn't the point is this post, but just saying...).
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:49 pm
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
I don't believe that anyone said that sahms are better mothers, but please give up on the idea that those who work full time do EVERYTHING that sahms do. If they did, they would be operating on a couple of hours of sleep a night. They may get done everything they feel they need to do, but that is not the same thing.

signed: someone who (gasp!) doesn't have the "guts" to use my actual fake name.


yes we do!

That is the whole point here.

We have to clean the house, cook dinner, make lunches, shop for food, shop for clothing, take kids to the Dr, deal with their teachers, do homework, laundry, dishes, spend time with them, read to them, get up in the middle of the night with our babies, nurse our babies, help our kids deal with social anxieties, take them to the park, build Lego with them, on and on and on and on.

oh and we also have to commute, work, do a good job, pump breast milk in the bathroom (some lucky ones have a clean place to do it), make appointments during our lunch breaks, and put on a smile when we get home with our cranky kids at 6 pm.

and yeah some of us are operating on very little sleep. I got 5 hours last night. I should be sleeping now but I am in the middle of lunches and laundry.

The only thing that is not "on me" is the heavy duty cleaning that I have some help with once a week. Wow. Lucky me. I don't scrub toilets and floors. I'm really catching a break here.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 9:51 pm
Many SAHMs take over for what would otherwise be their husbands' responsibility.
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happyness




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 10:38 pm
OP wow! You sound so organized and geshikt. And I totally feel for you. I feel you work way harder, and kudos to you for doing what you need to do.

I have worked the past 9 years. I didn't always want to, but needed to.

I just stopped working B"H.

There is no question about it. For me, when I worked, it was way harder-not necessarily always physically, but more emotionally. I felt that I could not be my real self with all that rushing, running from one thing to the next. I was constantly splitting myself between work and home, and one usually suffered.


It's an emotional change. I got my 'self' back. I get to be 'me'. Not that I'm not busy anymore. I now feel very busy too, yet more 'naturally' busy- busy with mommy kinda stuff...And I'm truly enjoying it. (obviously, I talk for myself-every woman is different)

Women that work have their minds on constant alert-what next! what do I need to pick up/schedule/ drop off/ remember! There is no break of that constant race against the clock. They need to throw in that load of laundry in the morning, and if they forget-their whole schedule can depend on that.

My husband used to come home at 4, to help with dinner and bedtime. Now he comes home at 7, as he is working more now, to bring in more.

And while I sit on the couch nursing my baby, playing spot-it with my son, lending a half an ear to my other son who is describing his gameboy, and watching my daughter feed her doll...as the flame needs to be shut and the children need to be fed...you guys all know that what a mother does can hardly be put into words.... the thought comes to mind-as much as I love my husband's help, there is something so delicious about me doing what I need to be doing and him doing what he needs to be doing. So While I'm still working very very hard-believe me!-It's just not as emotionally taxing.

Anyway, that's just my two cents Wink

And to quote another poster, this is definitely not a competition. We all work hard, in our own ways. Main thing is we try to do our best, and hopefully we can be happy with our role in life.
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bigsis144




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 20 2019, 10:58 pm
amother [ Blue ] wrote:
This is an ouch thread for me. I work very part time and I am falling apart. And I dont have that many kids. Good for you supermoms. Was that your point? Not everyone can work full time and cook and do laundry, groceries, appointments, play with their kids, do homework, put them to bed.....


This. I am not a supermom who can do it all!!

BH it works financially for me to be home now with my baby and run the home front while DH works long hours with a long commute and frequent travel.
I remember when I worked full time after DS1 and DS2 and how I was literally falling apart physically, mentally and emotionally. This time around, I avoided debilitating PPD by knowing my limits.

But there’s a part of me that still feels inferior to the moms who can juggle it all. That says I stay home because I’m weak, I’m lazy, I’m not trying as hard as I should. That if I somehow still need help - from my husband, hired help, etc. - that I’m a failure, I’m inefficient, I’m “entitled”.. That maybe the most important thing I can do is make money because everything I do can be outsourced, right?
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 21 2019, 1:08 am
amother [ Blue ] wrote:
This is an ouch thread for me. I work very part time and I am falling apart. And I dont have that many kids. Good for you supermoms. Was that your point? Not everyone can work full time and cook and do laundry, groceries, appointments, play with their kids, do homework, put them to bed.....

There's about a million different factors that affect how easy it is to work. How old your kids are, whether they sleep through the night, whether they're in daycare or underfoot while you try to work from home, whether the job is one that requires intense mental focus or not, whether the job requires specific hours in-office or not, your commute, how happy your kids are at daycare, your husband and his hours and how he is with housework and... etc.

Just because some people do it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you if you're struggling. For all you know, the whole reason for the difference is just that you have different circumstances.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Thu, Nov 21 2019, 1:46 am
This thread makes me sad

My kids wake up every single bingle morning and ask me if I really need to go to work today. Why can't I stay home etc..

I work full time, inc Sundays, no outside help whatsoever (cx afford), and yes by the time I come home I'm exhausted. In no way is my bonding time anywhere near as fulfilling as a SAHM/PT working mom/mom who has help. And that's before I get to whatever laundry/bathtime/cleaning/dinner prep I can get done before I collapse. Even if I cut corners to the extreme w regards to cleaning and cooking (and I do), kids do need clean bodies, clothes and food to eat.

Shabbos I usu collapse. My kids are just happy knowing that I'm home, they don't even demand much

Not that I'm jealous or busy comparing to anyone out there (heaven knows I have other things to be busy with); I'm honestly amazed that ppl accomplish so much and rly glad that tinokos shel beis rabban are getting so much love and attention. We all work hard and invest so so much into our children.

Just sad for my own Crying

Great thread for bringing out all our Jewish mom guilt and insecurities
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