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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 8:22 pm
One of the most pernicious modern myths about motherhood is that having kids will damage your career. Women are told that we need to choose between our jobs or our children, or that we’ll spend our most productive work years “juggling” or performing a “balancing act.”
For those of us uninterested in circus tricks, a bit of perspective: It’s not actually motherhood or kids that derail women’s careers and personal ambitions — it’s men who refuse to do their fair share.
If fathers did the same kind of work at home that mothers have always done, women’s careers could flourish in ways we haven’t yet imagined. But to get there, we need to stop framing mothers’ workplace woes as an issue of “balance,” and start talking about how men’s domestic negligence makes it so hard for us to succeed.
Yes, we know American men are doing more than they have in past years: Fathers report spending about eight hours a week on child care, or three times as much as fathers in 1965. (Though keep in mind that the data is self-reported, and men tend to overestimate how much domestic work and child care they do.)
Men doing more, however, is not the same thing as men doing enough. Despite progress made, mothers are still spending almost twice the amount of time that men do, 14 hours a week, on child care. And not all parenting is tangible, quantifiable work — it’s the mental labor of having kids that’s often the most taxing. It’s easy to split, for example, who packs a school lunch or dresses a child in the morning. But someone also needs to keep track of those days when lunch needs to be bagged for a field trip, or when it’s time to buy new underwear or sneakers. How many dads do you know who could tell you their child’s correct shoe size?
This kind of invisible work almost always falls on women, and we rarely talk about the impact it has on our professional lives. Imagine if instead of our mind being filled with to-do lists about grocery shopping and dentist appointments, we had available head space for creative thinking around our work and passions. For mothers, the freedom to just think is a privilege.
Studies also show that fathers continue to have significantly more leisure time than mothers and that mothers use their off time to do chores and child care while fathers use time off for hobbies and relaxing. This, too, is about careers: We know that people who have more leisure time and time for creative activities tend to perform better at work.
To be sure, there are also “motherhood penalties” in workplaces that have nothing to do with men. (At least, not the ones we share beds with.) Mothers are much less likely to be hired than non-mothers, and when they have children, their wages fall off a cliff. Studies from 2017 led some analysts to come to the conclusion that the wage gap was almost entirely attributable to motherhood. Men, on the other hand, tend to see more money once they have children. Individual and structural discrimination against mothers remains, and that takes a tremendous toll on women’s abilities to achieve in the public sphere.
But the answers to workplace discrimination are straightforward, and more importantly, they’re finally being recognized as necessary. That men do less child care is widely known, but it’s not widely condemned. We hear again and again, for example, that women just “care” more.
I promise you, there is nothing fulfilling about remembering that your daughter needs hair ties, or that she’s about to grow out of that pair of sandals. There’s no joy in changing a diaper or clipping tiny toenails. If women in relationships with men seem to be more concerned with these tasks, perhaps it’s because we know it’s not our husbands who will be looked at askance if our kid goes to school sporting inch-long fingernails or ill-fitting shoes.
Americans need to stop believing that women do the majority of care work because we want to. It’s because we’re expected to, because we’re judged if we don’t, and most of all, because it’s incredibly difficult to find male partners willing to do an equal share of the work.
So let’s stop saying that it’s motherhood that holds up women’s careers; it’s not the institution of parenthood that makes advancing at work difficult. It’s not our kids. It’s that there’s no chance of equality at work while there’s inequality at home. It’s not that women can’t “have it all,” it’s that men won’t stop taking it.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 8:26 pm
Here's a link for the article you posted, Kids Don’t Damage Women’s Careers — Men Do: https://gen.medium.com/kids-do.....689b8 by Jessica Valenti
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westchestermom




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 8:52 pm
naturalmom, you're absolutely right. For whatever reason, I have to bear the mental load of remembering things and making lists. I was most miserable when we were both working and I was doing obviously more than 50% of chores. He got to come home and be tired but I had to come home and do stuff. So we made the decision after the first one was born that since I had the better chance at earning more I went back to school and he would only work on my days off, when it was convenient or when the kids are all in school and not incurring childcare costs.
Therefore, my husband does the majority of the things to be checked off: laundry, sweeping, vacuuming, mopping, morning dropoff, baths, staying home when they are babies, he even volunteered to go to this round of parent teacher conferences which I am shocked and over the moon about! I don't mind being the one responsible for reminding and organizing if I don't have to do the manual labor. I think it's a good tradeoff. I still do 90 percent of the shopping and cooking (and the breastfeeding) but when I'm at work I'm 100 percent at work. The school nurse, teachers know to try him first. Once they realize my job involves being scrubbed into surgery most days they only call in an emergency. I love my job and it's a nice mental break from home. It's also not the kind of job I have to bring home.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 8:57 pm
Why is everything men's fault?
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 9:14 pm
The whole premise is wrong, many women succeed. Many women have children and very successful careers. Many women make more than men in the same job.

The women who succeed work with their partner or hire people to help them. They do not blame the world for their issues.

The fact is many women prefer to raise their kids than hand over the reigns to their partner or sitter. This is because women want to nurture. This is not anyone's fault.

Lastly women are not victims.
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amother




Wine
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 9:27 pm
I would love to jump on the bandwagon of men are horrible and are the cause of female problems but right now I am lazing around on my phone while my husband cleans the kitchen from shabbos after having taken the boys to Saturday night learning and put them to bed and fed them supper. oh I put the baby to sleep. Yay me!

Very Happy


I do get the point of the article but I don't think generalizing is fair. There are good guys out there.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 9:28 pm
naturalmom, I feel like you snuck a peek at my PMs with another poster on this site.

I've been complaining about this exact thing for a while.

It's not just that I do more, it's that my headspace is taken up much more with all the things that need to be done. I need to keep track of them, because I know he won't. If my kids show up at school in the morning with messy hair, will the Morah think it's because their father didn't invest the time to make them look presentable, or that their mother doesn't put her kids together?
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amother




Teal
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 9:33 pm
We still haven’t found a way for a man to share the responsibility of nine months of pregnancy and childbirth , recovery from childbirth, and ability to nurse a baby.
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trixx




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 9:36 pm
There's a book called Fed Up by Emma something that talks about emotional labor. She wrote an article too
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amother




Yellow
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 9:47 pm
There are a few opinions I have. I learned from my hubby that everyone has different strengths. Some like or are talented in different areas. See what your husband enjoys doing and support him in that. Some men like to cook. My husband likes to do laundry. It takes time to give up a task that we are used to doing. But if you put your hearts together you may find some things he will do that you never could have imagined. Very Happy
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Ravenclaw




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Nov 23 2019, 10:24 pm
While I usually agree with most feminist posts, I don’t like the “men are to blame” camp. I like to think society is to blame, but most men and women don’t consciously make a choice to conform to gender norms, it’s just what we are used to.

Regarding this specific topic, it is 100% true that the mental responsibility of the home is on the woman most of the time. Although my husband does a huge part of the housework and child care, I have to ask him to.
But.
He has the mental responsibility of the finances. Yes, I work and contribute equally to the finances, but I let go of the stress and worry of it and let him make the calculations of how much to leave in bank and in cash, etc.
But that’s what works for us. Equal opportunity for men and women doesn’t mean that anyone needs to subscribe to any particular system, as long as they are happy with how it’s working.

As an aside point, it drives me insane how people sing a guy’s praises for helping out with childcare and housework, while shrugging away a women working as normal and expected. Either praise both for helping each other, or believe it’s normal to split duties. But no double standards please.
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sushilover




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 12:01 am
I agree with much of your post, especially the idea that it's always the mothers who are judged if something isn't right.
I respectfully disagree with this point, though.
naturalmom5 wrote:

I promise you, there is nothing fulfilling about remembering that your daughter needs hair ties, or that she’s about to grow out of that pair of sandals. There’s no joy in changing a diaper or clipping tiny toenails.

I find it immensely fulfilling to be involved in the nitty gritty of my children's lives. No career or hobby can compare.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 6:25 am
amother [ Teal ] wrote:
We still haven’t found a way for a man to share the responsibility of nine months of pregnancy and childbirth , recovery from childbirth, and ability to nurse a baby.


THis. But BH women can succeed and it's not even new

Google Dolce of Worms
Glikel of Hameln
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amother




Sienna
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 7:07 am
I disagree.
For some it might be this way.
My husband would love to take paternity leave but it doesn't make sense financially and he feels bad taking this time away from me because he knows I love being a mom more than I love my job.
He's really good with the kids and I don't need to ask him to spend time with them.
The only thing he does tend to leave to me is household duties.
I really need to push him to do his chores. Which is super annoying. But I'm not a career woman so maybe this thread isn't for me.

Being pregnant, giving birth and nursing isn't something men can take over though. And those are things that can definitely stand in the way of a career.
Some people don't like to employ women who can still give birth and prefer to employ men.
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chmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 7:14 am
Preach sister!
I find that this has me constantly boiling under the surface
How come a decent, intelligent and basically well meaning husband will NOT STEP UP AND DO THEIR FAIR SHARE OF EVERYTHING?
It just boggles my mind
If asked my husband’s response was basically :“because it is easier this way/ it never occurred to me/ I am lazy I guess“
All this said with a certain degree of resentment/ why is it all my fault/ guilt
I do NOT understand
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 7:35 am
Paternity leave shouldn't be instead of but at the same time or at the very least, not linked
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 8:35 am
Why does everything have to be equal between men and women? That sounds childish - tit for tat. Should women 3 times per day with a minyan? Should they learn Torah formally daily? And speak for yourselves, many women take great satisfaction in grooming and shopping for their children. Families thrive when each parent does what they excel at and that looks different for every family.
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paperflowers




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 8:40 am
Rubber Ducky wrote:
Here's a link for the article you posted, Kids Don’t Damage Women’s Careers — Men Do: https://gen.medium.com/kids-do.....689b8 by Jessica Valenti


Thanks
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amother




Orange
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 8:43 am
I was a sahm for years. I went back to work afew years ago

Dh helps me out 30 min every Friday. Otherwise I'm lucky if his clothing end up in the hamper and if his dishes end up in the sink.

There are many things I have asked him to do. Grocery shopping, laundry, sweeping, cleaning the leaves, carpool. He refuses. Sunday dinner is DHS responsibility, but many times I have to do it.

I am the one taking long lunches and coming late to work because of the kids dr, dentist and orthodontist appointments. Dh will work at home occasionally if the kids have a day off and I need to work. He wont make dinner those nights.

I have been told repeatedly at work that it's hard for a women to move ahead because family will always be first. Somehow they have the message that unfortunately men don't feel the same way.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Sun, Nov 24 2019, 9:05 am
When I used to ask my dh to make supper on nights I had to work late, he would buy enough crusty rolls and butter for whoever was home at the time he was "making supper." They'd eat. Then when the older kids and I came home there would be nothing for us to eat. There *were* dirty dishes waiting for me though. He was perpetually baffled why I was upset. "But I made supper!" I would specifically ask him not to do the rolls and butter thing and he'd still do it! Or I would say, if you're going to buy rolls and butter, can you please get x number of rolls so there's enough? And then he'd be at the store and look at the price and feel it was too expensive to buy so many, and make all these crazy cheshbonos, and end up buying not nearly enough, again!

So that's one of the many reasons why I do all the planning and organizing. It's also why I buy tons of pasta and jarred spaghetti sauce so if I ever get stuck at work, I can give dh specific instructions: can you please make pasta for the kids? It's in the pantry, second shelf down. And could you please peel some carrots and cut them up? And could you please serve oranges too? They're in the fruit basket to the left of the stove.

I don't think it's a gender thing though. I have a friend whose dh is a sahd and does great with most of that stuff.

I'm a big believer in writing down everything you need to do for the kids and for the household so dh can see it on paper. My dh became much better about doing stuff once he saw how many things needed to get done. You can make a checklist and have it up on the fridge. My dh doesn't like to feel like he's being told to do something. He does better with the list so when he has a little time he can check something off the list and feel good about doing it.
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