Why women dont succeed

nicole81

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 6:15 am

I'm successful in my career and at parenting BH, and my husband takes care of 75% of household responsibilities. It's the only way for us.

I was a single mom for a while and definitely juggled 100% of all responsibility for a couple of years, but it was totally unsustainable long term.

I should note that DH (proudly) takes flak regularly from men coworkers, friends, and guys at shul regarding how often he totes the kids around with him and takes care of shopping, etc... which totally supports the idea that he's an outlier and many man view taking on significant household responsibility as a negative.

dancingqueen

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 7:14 am

These days with online ordering, it’s easy for both spouses to help carry the mental load. My dh manages most of our household needs via amazon subscribe and save. I supplement with that and manage most of our toiletries, food, and clothes.

I don’t relate to a man refusing to do anything around the house, because imo that’s not acting like a mensch and a frum guy should be raised to be mensch.

naturalmom5

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 8:27 am

Ecto...

So once again, if thats the case by women

Didn't Gd make men to supoort their familes, the problem is too many people in our community are screamong tradition and the Bible says and G-d made women, when ut comes ro the mother's role

But when it comes to men, suddenly we forget what tge Bible says andcwhat men were created for...

Ravenclaw

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 10:44 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

This. When my husband would help me serve the shabbos seuda, my mother thought she would faint from shame. She kept saying, "But he works! He's tired." But you know what? So do I.
Most women I know don't feel entitled to sit down and rest after work, while most men do (as far as I can tell).
If we share the burden of parnassa, we should share the burdens of childcare and housework, no?

chipmunks

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 1:14 pm

sushilover wrote:

I agree with much of your post, especially the idea that it's always the mothers who are judged if something isn't right.
I respectfully disagree with this point, though.
I find it immensely fulfilling to be involved in the nitty gritty of my children's lives. No career or hobby can compare.

Thank you! I LOVE clipping their tiny nails! We have a song, and the nail clipper is an animal snacking on their delicious little nails for dessert. I love buying them kippot, tzitzits, hair accessories, shoes (with one or two kids at a time, anyway). And you know what? Yes, I love changing diapers. That can be quality time, too. My little one laughed so hard tonight we ended up having to change it again right away. TMI

There have been times that I've worked and times that I've stayed home and those things have always been priceless. Of course there are many valid points to this. Just...I feel really bad for the men who don't get these amazing experiences with their kids. You don't get that back.

chipmunks

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 1:17 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Paternity leave shouldn't be instead of but at the same time or at the very least, not linked

That's what I've always thought, too. And I bet more men would step up when the kids are bigger if it were clear from the beginning that society holds them responsible and values them as fathers, too.

small bean

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 3:21 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

I'm sorry that is on you. If you want to sit and chill let it be known.

I personally find when my husband is around I want to chill with him and neither of us get stuff done. So I ask him not to come home unless a kid needs help with homework that I can't do.

If I need space, he comes home and I go out. He does all I need from dinner to bathtime to bedtime and everything in between.

And all the men I know do the same if it is asked.

ectomorph

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 4:36 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

The vast majority of frum men work. Chassidish men work. Litvish men work. Sephardic men work. Yeshivish men work (after learning a few years). MO men work.

Mommyg8

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 4:43 pm

ectomorph wrote:

The vast majority of frum men work. Chassidish men work. Litvish men work. Sephardic men work. Yeshivish men work (after learning a few years). MO men work.

And working in klei kodesh, as a Rebbe, Rav, Rosh Kollel or even Mashgiach, is still work. Which is what the vast, vast majority of yeshivish men (even in Eretz Yisroel) do after a few years of learning.

zaftigmom

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 6:18 pm

If you are overworked and your husband is not responding to your requests for help sharing the burden of running a household then either something is getting lost in communication or there's a middos issue.

I don't think that the way society thinks should have an impact on how you run your own household. My husband and I spent the entire first year of our marriage having this conversation, with and without a marriage counselor, and we didn't stop talking about it until we got on the same page.

People are always commenting on how jealous they are of my husband's help but these are the same people that try to manipulate or nudge their husbands into helping instead of having mature conversations about how it affects them.

I'm not saying that the end result for everyone will be a helpful husband. I'm very grateful to my husband for being so involved. I'm just saying that it's not something that happens by itself for most people. Most men were raised by fathers who provided for the family but didn't lift a finger at home and they shouldn't be expected to figure out that they need to pull their weight at home without you talking to them about it no matter how obvious it seems to you. You also might learn that he might have other reasons for not helping that would make you understand him more.

Mommyg8

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 6:30 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

LOL, I can't believe this happens to you too! My mother is not alive, but my MIL bh sure is, and I can just see her face when she sees my husband serving! Believe me, I still do plenty in the house, even if he does serve (some of the time).

Zaftigmom, you are right, this should be a conversation that takes a good few years to discuss.

The problem in my mind, is that society still thinks of some things as "women's work" and some things as "men's work" even if said man and woman work at equally taxing jobs. It's so frustrating!!!

amother

Pewter

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 6:39 pm

As an aside point, it drives me insane how people sing a guy’s praises for helping out with childcare and housework, while shrugging away a women working as normal and expected. Either praise both for helping each other, or believe it’s normal to split duties. But no double standards please.[/quote]
That is why I pamper myself, and make my kids pitch in all the time.
I make them check if they have enough clothes and if not they make their own personal loads.
I make the kids serve and prepare food such as melave malka, breakfeast etc.
I am no martyr.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Nov 24 2019, 6:43 pm

zaftigmom wrote:

You might be right in many cases but not in all. Men come in all shapes and sizes. You could have a brilliant businessman who is very considerate, very baal middos who simply are clueless about a house. Just like their are women who cannot work while having small children.....