Mothers of many, do you agree?

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 9:46 am

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totally disagree with proping up a bottle. dangerous on all accounts!!

yeah, for a one month it's weird! a tiny baby isn't so skilled!!

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and how is it warm?

My dd takes all her bottles not warm. Until 6 months it was forbidden to warm them, and now the habit is caught and it's easier and less risky. Bottles and jars are given to "ambiant" temp.

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who makes sure baby doesn't ch'vsl choke, or burps, or needs to be changed from a dirty diaper so he won't get a rash? and how do you know the baby drank the bottle and it didn't fall, or make sure the bottle was in the mouth, and not going to fast....

agree about all that, except you can put the bottle on the right number for the age and it doesn't go too fast, and my ped told me I don't need to change dd during the night (if I'm already in bed, she says I don't need to bother, I'll do it in the morning unless it's the big thing).

gold21

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 9:47 am

this woman should have been interviewed by Mishpocha magazine when they did that interview on moms of many....
what can I say, its very difficult to have 9 kids under 10 years old...cant even imagine....
but what she is doing is just bad parenting, just wrong to the kids.

gold21

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 9:48 am

hadasa

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 10:05 am

I've gone through various stages on this issue.

There was a time when I definitely felt it was easier to just let the kids into my bedroom than spend time every night trying to teach them to fall back asleep in their own beds.

At the present, B"H all my kids except for the baby usually sleep through the night. I hope it will last, but if someone will start getting midnight jitters again, I'll probably let him/her into my room again.

Actually, when I had fewer kids it was harder, since they felt less secure in their rooms. Now that the younger ones see the 10-12 year olds, they're less afraid to stay in their own beds. (Though I've occasionally found my 2-year-old or 4-year-old sleeping together with their big sister!)

He*Sings*To*Me

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 10:11 am

We have 4, with #5 due in around Purim...I 95% agree with establishing boundaries...
...our allowable exceptions are breastfeeding an infant, a child awakening from a bad dream or a child who is ill/feverish/diarrhea-ish/vomiting.
We have a child who sleeps so soundly that his bladder just so completely relaxes that he requires diapers. I ABSOLUTELY want him coming to me if there is a leak on his bedsheets...who wants to remain in their own body waste all night?
The middle of the night is NOT the time to read books, play music, get out the toys, or have private tatty/mommy time for cuddles & kisses. While we comfort the emotion that often accompanies the above, it is done in an expeditious way, with promise of morning cuddles, hugs, etc. It's ALWAYS worked.
I'm in my 40's, DH his 50's...we waited a long time for basherit with each other...these little people that we've been entrusted with deserve the dignity and respect of full tummies, comfort when upset, good health, and dry sheets that we as their parents provide...
Dare I be controversial and add that I feel anything less is bordering neglectfulness?

greenfire

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 10:19 am

kids need nurturance and coddling ... how else will they grow up to be secure in who they are - and that they are worthwhile ... there is time for being independant later ...

I would NEVER prop a bottle - I find that cold and callous ...

although I think bedtime should be a pleasant routine - there are so many middle of the night issues for small ones ... man even big ones ...

they don't need a mother at all if they are going to be neglected ... and why have all those kids if you don't care to nurture them ... shock

hadasa

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 10:40 am

A side point: I'm all for setting boundaries - boundaries are necessary in order to educate children that there are limits, that they need to be considerate of others, to be independent etc. etc. Boundaries are also sometimes necessary for the mother's sanity......However.....the need for boundaries should never turn into an attitude of "I cannot let these children inconvenience me.....How can I raise these children with the least interference with my own needs....and so on.

Yes, having children is sometimes inconvenient and sometimes interferes with the mother's personal needs. That is part of the holy mission of raising children.

So, boundaries for the sake of education - yes. Making sure the mother gets enough sleep so she will be sane and healthy and calm for her children - yes. But being too harsh with her children so that they never CH"V disturb her beauty sleep - No, No, No.

I'm not saying this is what that particular mother's attitude is, just that we should be wary of it.

anuta

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 10:44 am

sleeping at night is not about showing boundaries, domination, lack of love or attachment, etc.; its about a child's health and development. CHildren need uninterrupted sleep, and lots of it. It helps them grow well and develop properly. Have you ever noticed how your child is grumpy and moody if they wake up at night? And how they are golden boy/girl if they slept well?

There is research showing connections between all those things.. It might be hard, especially for the first time mother, and heartwrenching, to teach a child to sleep all night. But ultimately it is for the benefit of the child. The child will be happier in the long run. Developmentally children can stop waking up at night to eat before a year old.

My children are almost 4 and 1.5 - they both go to bed at 7 pm and wake up between 6 and 7 in the morning; and the younger one also naps during the day.

A very good book on the subject is written by Dr. Weissbluth (sp?), who is a pediatrician and a specialist on child sleep. (Healthy sleep habits, happy child I think its called)

AGINY

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 11:04 am

Of course Ruchel's friend is extreme with her bhavior towards her one month old, but I agree in theorywith her theory once the kids are older. My kids (ok, only two so far, one five and one 2, one on the way IY"H) are taught to sleep through the night pretty early on. My neighbor on my floor has her kids (four of them aged 5 - 3 months) up till 10pm. She is always "complaining" that my kids are calm, eat nicely and play nicely while her kids are hyper and acting cookoo. I have explained to her many times that for litte kids sleep is as important as food and as playtime and as hugs from Mommy.

My kids have lots of attention time. We play for an hour or so after supper and baths and we always end of the night with a bedtime story, regardless of where I have to run or what shape the house is in. Sleep scheduling to me is a part of my love not a lack of it. Little children who get up constantly through the night are not well rested the next morning. Just as I teach my kids to eat, to use the bathroom and many other life skills, I teach them the skill of sleeping through the night.

Of course if tehy are CH"V sick or have an accident I am there for them in teh middle of the night but that is an exception not a rule, it doesn't happen every day B"H.

This may sound harsh, but I think parents who don't teach young children to sleep through the night are neglectful as are parent who don't feed their children or do their homework with them.

chavamom

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 11:06 am

Hmm - when I had a house full of younger kids, yes, they went to bed and slept at 7:30 or so (except for whomever was the baby Wink

). But try that with kids ranging from 16 to 2. Nope, doesn't work anymore. I wish your friend a lot of luck in the future.

Pickle Lady

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 11:17 am

chavamom wrote:

Hmm - when I had a house full of younger kids, yes, they went to bed and slept at 7:30 or so (except for whomever was the baby Wink

). But try that with kids ranging from 16 to 2. Nope, doesn't work anymore. I wish your friend a lot of luck in the future.

My aunt said the same thing. Her kids range from 25 -9months old and most are atlmost 2 years apart. Her teenagers mostly go out of state for high school but whent hey are in town, the bedtime rountine does not go smoothly.

The mother that the OP mentioned has alot of young children. It is understandable to be very strict with their sleep schedule because she needs her sleep to be sane the next day. I had a friend who also had many kids that were very young and she was almost similar in how she coped with it. She formula fed and most of the time propped the bottle or a sibling fed the baby. The babies were left in the cribs all night and only were changed or given a bottle. If the kids woke up in the middle of the night or early in the morning, they just stayed in thier crib until she woke up to get them. Do I agree with her parenting style? I don't think I am one to judge that. She loves her kids and she is doing the best she can with what she has.

He*Sings*To*Me

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 11:34 am

I went back and re-read Ruchel's original post on this thread...

Now that I think about it, and after reading the wisdom of what a few others have posted, it makes a little more sense for her to take this position...her body has been in a continuous state of childbearing/childrearing for OVER ten years, if you do the math. I'm sure she makes exceptions and it may be possible that her DH is the one who gets up (mine does, and I am sure there are other DH's on here that do, as well)

She recognizes that BOTH she and her children need sleep...for everyone's sanity and health in that household.

I think that initially I judged her a bit too harshly in that regard, but I DO have a problem with a newborn having a bottle propped like a baby monkey in a zoo cage for a night feed. There are choking/spit-up issues that arouse my concern. I wonder if she is dealing with a touch of post-partum depression, which may've clouded her better judgment a bit? What

ChavieK

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 12:32 pm

Totaly agree with mother48.My kids all slept through the night.Babies were nursed in the dark.I do agree middle of the night is not play or cuddle time but it is always time to be loved & secure especially for infants.
But 7:30 for a 10 yr old?Also all going to sleep at same time,3-10 yr is not fair to older ones.My 11 yr old asked to go to bed 15 minutes after 9 yr old because he's 2 years older.Although I have to admit that with older kids in the house it is harder to be strict with the under teenage ones.

raizy

Thu, Jan 10 2008, 12:50 pm

Sorry I dont agree to this.

just like u dont prop a breast the same way u dont prop a bottle.

I tell that to whomever askes me do u prop the botte? or they want to inform me that I have it much easier then them . because they nurse and I give bottles. Rolling Eyes

they dont take newborns who drink 7.5 ml in one hr into account.... yay that is less then half a once per feeding. I should prop a premie baby according to them.

He*Sings*To*Me

Wed, Jan 16 2008, 5:17 pm

Ruchel wrote:

oooooh
ok

But then... maybe the equivalent would be cosleeping so the kid can grab the breast and nurse without waking you?

Oh, Yeah...I made the mistake of doing that with my first...yup, Ruchel, you are SO RIGHT about this...BIG mistake on my part! (of course, your first is your "only child" and there is somewhat of a learning curve shock

) in essence, it is very much akin to "propping"...did not repeat co-sleeping with the other ones who followed.