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Hypothetical Discussion--Standardized "canned" lessons
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 12:31 pm
What if instead of having regular classes with teachers, some children went to a school with a curriculum based on online video lessons and computer quizzes, with only a couple of real teachers around to help out and answer questions? Would this be effective?
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 1:06 pm
If they are motivated yes
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:45 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What if instead of having regular classes with teachers, some children went to a school with a curriculum based on online video lessons and computer quizzes, with only a couple of real teachers around to help out and answer questions? Would this be effective?


You're assuming, of course, that the kids will sit like angels until those rotating teachers (who presumably have to be experts on all subjects at all levels) come in. Or are the kids learning in their own bubbles at their own paces?

I don't see it, not just for the problems I touch on in the first paragraph but because there are important benefits in the teacher student relationship. For limudei kodesh especially there's the concept of mesorah. And there are benefits from being in a class and working and supporting fellow students.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:48 pm
I said some children.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:50 pm
How would the founders of the school have any idea of what kind of demographic they would have?
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tovli toraspicha




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:57 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What if instead of having regular classes with teachers, some children went to a school with a curriculum based on online video lessons and computer quizzes, with only a couple of real teachers around to help out and answer questions? Would this be effective?


There was a Jewish school in NJ a little while ago that opened with a similar premise- a few rotating teachers but mostly ipad based learning, very few physical resources etc, as an attempt to keep tuition costs low. I havent heard anything about them in a while- anyone know what I'm talking about and whether they had any success?

(maybe Yeshivat he-atid?)
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watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:59 pm
I know of a Jewish school that does this. Its called blended learning and is quite well liked.
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 3:02 pm
For what ages and grades? I did something like this in high school. I picture it working with middle school and up ... But elementary ages may need more. (Not necessarily our traditional concept of school... But more)
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Lesia




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 3:03 pm
tovli toraspicha wrote:
There was a Jewish school in NJ a little while ago that opened with a similar premise- a few rotating teachers but mostly ipad based learning, very few physical resources etc, as an attempt to keep tuition costs low. I havent heard anything about them in a while- anyone know what I'm talking about and whether they had any success?

(maybe Yeshivat he-atid?)

Yeshivat He-atid in Bergen County. As far as I know, it’s had success.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 3:11 pm
They might learn something but most would not learn nearly as well as they do with a live teacher. Human interaction is helpful. So is hearing questions other humans have.

t I learn almost nothing from the canned online lessons we get at work. This despite the fact that they are presented every year. Repetition alone should push some of it into my head, but no. I space out. My eyes glaze over. My eye sees and my brain ignores. I need to relate to a person to whom I owe the courtesy of paying attention.

Videos are a nice adjunct but they don’t stand alone.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 4:29 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
How would the founders of the school have any idea of what kind of demographic they would have?

By advertising and interviewing.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 5:02 pm
is the school staffed with low paid child supervisors?
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Fox




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 6:17 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What if instead of having regular classes with teachers, some children went to a school with a curriculum based on online video lessons and computer quizzes, with only a couple of real teachers around to help out and answer questions? Would this be effective?

Or course! Programmed instruction has long been known to be effective, though obviously in some areas more than others.

A few of the benefits:

* Students proceed at their own pace in each subject, ridding schools of the loathesome "honors," "regular," and "remedial" tracks. A student who is excellent in English, for example, may need extra help in math. In fact, that's not at all unusual. Programmed instruction makes this easy.

* Students learn to prioritize and avoid procrastination. Think of the average school day. You get no benefit from staying on task and doing your work efficiently. At best, you'll be allowed to read quietly. At worst, you'll have a teacher who is simply annoyed that you've mastered the material so efficiently. So, basically, we teach kids that staying on task and focusing on their work hurts them. If students were allowed to, say, shoot baskets in the gym or do crafts or whatever when they finished their assignments, we might see a lot more motivation.

* It's a better way to make sure everyone has mastered "the basics" as Imamothers like to refer to basic academic skills. Too many schools lack any kind of quantitative information about whether an individual child is able to read, write, or do arithmetic. Yes, little Chaim has received good grades, but if those grades are based partly on homework and participation or whatever, they will likely camoflauge some problems.

* Save the better teachers for the subjects in which the teacher matters more. Frankly, you don't need a great teacher to learn the functions of nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs. Some kind of programmed instruction will do very nicely. However, you do need a good teacher for Gemara.

I find it interesting that virtually all the franchise tutoring places use the programmed instruction model. Parents pay thousands of dollars for what the schools could easily be doing in less time.

In fact, a number of years ago, my sons' Cheder actually hired Mathnasium to come in and bring all the boys up to grade level and set up a curriculum. By the end, there were only a handful of boys in the entire school whose math skills weren't at or above grade level -- and all of them had been diagnosed with learning disabilities and were making significant progress.

I have never understood why parents don't demand more programmed instruction rather than complain endlessly about teachers and curriculum.
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amother




Pearl
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 6:29 pm
Yeshivat heatid has a completely different model which is why students can spend a third on computers. The other 2/3 they are closely supervised by teachers / working in small groups in individual levels. Not plopped in front of a screen.
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 8:08 pm
NO
Our children need to develop human interaction skills, not become widgets sitting in front of a computer
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 8:18 pm
I think it’s a great idea though it may be harder to enforce in a classroom setting.
My sons have mastered an entire high school secular curriculum in just an hour a day of self motivated online learning. They both graduated at the age of 16.
The amount of time that is wasted in school is appalling. It doesn’t take that long for a self motivated student to actually learn what is required.
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amother




Linen
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 8:31 pm
I would think this would be most successful with older students. Younger grades where students are still learning the building blocks, need more guidance.
By the way, someone mentioned flipped classrooms...That was all the rage a few years ago but it has mostly fizzled out by now. Not saying there aren't isolated teachers or schools which still use it (and I'm sure it is still a big thing in college classes), but it turned out to be just another educational fad with no real longevity.
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dankbar




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 8:51 pm
The homeschooling programs are by computer, but also have live teachers seen by video to make it feel real not just a machine giving prompts.
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dankbar




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 8:59 pm
I remember as a student, loving the teachers that were more personal or interesting, the ones who either shared personal stories, allowed back & forth discussions, used a dramatic tone of voice or cute expressions, played games to reinforce the work we learned, or brought hand on experiments or interesting visual aid.

Those teachers that just rattled on with thier lessons, with you trying to keep up, writing notes ( because they were insecure that they will lose momentum & then lose control) or the ones that just read out of a book or just had you open the book to do the worksheets etc. lost me. I hated them.

The ones that were more personal, ended up having more of a relationship with us, thus having a greater impact overall, and were able to help the girls that needed the help more.
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TwinsMommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 26 2019, 9:04 pm
If somehow it's coupled with group projects, research papers, library scavenger hunts and computer webquests and the other goodies that straight computer lessons would be missing, I'd be game. But for all of that you need---- the normal number of teachers.

I was in a Reform temple Hebrew school that ran the middle school this way---- I was on the green packet while someone else was on yellow, etc etc. I enjoyed the packets and definitely learned, but it was pretty monotonous and I don't even remember the name of my teacher because I wasn't interacting much with the teacher. Plus what's to stop a group of kids from blowing it all off and sitting there chatting----- you're trying to cut down on staff but then classroom management falls apart when a few bad eggs are just sitting there unmotivated.
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