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Has anyone attended Elevation Mastery Program?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 8:39 am
Rabbi Doniel Katz's highly popular program promises to teach you how to (in a nutshell): "ELEVATE YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS AND LIVE A SUPERNATURAL LIFE". I have always struggled with frustration with the cycle of inspiration - I feel like I put so much cheshek and ratzon into trying to attain and maintain an elevated consciousness, but in our classic frum education, we were given no tools to do so. This course sounds really exciting for me, but at the same time I am skeptical of someone promising to offer "secrets" (though they are all 100% sourced) into a way of life that 99% of people in our generation have not been taught. I'm also having a hard time finding official haskamos for this course.
Has anyone taken it and can share their impressions of the authenticity and whether it truly had a real effect on their life?
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studying_torah




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 9:52 am
No I haven't, though I have seen ads for it.
There's a number of clips on you tube. However, just watching a preview clip it looks so cult like to me & pop mass psychology and almost mass hypnosis.
Ppl screaming, jumping, hugging; blowing & popping bubbles to get rid of a difficult past etc.
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Amalia




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 9:56 am
I never heard of it, but the words “supernatural life” should clue you in
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amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 10:10 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Rabbi Doniel Katz's highly popular program promises to teach you how to (in a nutshell): "ELEVATE YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS AND LIVE A SUPERNATURAL LIFE". I have always struggled with frustration with the cycle of inspiration - I feel like I put so much cheshek and ratzon into trying to attain and maintain an elevated consciousness, but in our classic frum education, we were given no tools to do so. This course sounds really exciting for me, but at the same time I am skeptical of someone promising to offer "secrets" (though they are all 100% sourced) into a way of life that 99% of people in our generation have not been taught. I'm also having a hard time finding official haskamos for this course.
Has anyone taken it and can share their impressions of the authenticity and whether it truly had a real effect on their life?


This is literally chabad chassidus which I and thousands of others was taught in school.

Start with free lectures and articles first

Speakers: rabbis YY Jacobson, Manis Friedman

Check out the teachings of Rav Kook too. Rabbi aharon is great
http://www.rabbidavidaaron.com/
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 10:15 am
I just joined in a learning group for self growth and we are working with the book by Shterna Ginsburg “Your Awesome Self”.
I believe it’s also based on chasiddus . I have not read it yet. But it’s about connecting to your higher self.
Meditating daily can connect you to your higher self. This automatically makes you live more consciously than just following your subconscious mind all the time.
What gets me nervous is the comment “supernatural”.
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Chavas




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 10:19 am
I don't think it's what he's offering, rather he uses his acting background to present concepts in a mesmerizing fashion.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 11:41 pm
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
This is literally chabad chassidus which I and thousands of others was taught in school.

Start with free lectures and articles first

Speakers: rabbis YY Jacobson, Manis Friedman

Check out the teachings of Rav Kook too. Rabbi aharon is great
http://www.rabbidavidaaron.com/


I am fascinated by this stuff, but I feel like whenever I learn it, I am learning one little focused piece of the picture and I'm only seeing the trees, not the forest. In general, I feel that way about my Jewish education and upbringing. I feel like it was very fragmented. We learned chumash, we learned halacha, we learned hashkafa on various topics. As an adult I go to a shiur here and there on different topics. Sometimes I feel very inspired, the inspiration fades; most of the time, I'm just living life being carried along on the waves of life's humdrum. I feel like I'm missing the big picture, and even chabad chassidus, which I really connect to, I still feel like I'm not getting the big picture.

(By the way, a few months ago I started reading Rabbi Aaron's book on G-d in someone's house and found it fascinating, but wasn't sure if I was reading apikorsus or not. He seems to be more of a "new-age" Rabbi. Do mainstream Rabbanim hold of him?
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 6:09 am
I confess to knowing nothing of this person or his philosophy, but IME good products speak for themselves and don’t need to be dressed up with fancy language and hyperbolic claims like “supernatural living.” Plain language works very well to sell quality merchandise, tangible or not.
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amother




Slategray
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 12:40 pm
OP, if you want "elevated consciousness," daven. Really daven. As much as you can throughout your day. You already have the tools you need. A heart that yearns to connect is truly all you need.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 1:01 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
OP, if you want "elevated consciousness," daven. Really daven. As much as you can throughout your day. You already have the tools you need. A heart that yearns to connect is truly all you need.


Thank you so much for saying this, because this is so perfectly representative of everything that frustrates me with our (classical litvish) model of Yiddishkeit.

Besides for those few times in life when I am gifted with inspiration, the other 98% of my life - davening for a few minutes in the morning is enough of a struggle. Davening while constantly fighting to draw my awareness away from the millions of thoughts running through my head back to the basic meaning of the words is the next level up, even harder. And no, it doesn't get easier. It is a struggle every single time.

Even during those moments of inspiration, when my heart is full of yearning, and I feel Hashem's shechina so close, I still feel like I am hitting a wall, some type of barrier, and that there must be a way to transcend that - to be even more connected, I just don't have those tools.

I refuse to believe that this is what G-d intended for us. Our classic tradition is lefum tzara'ah agrah, and that the moments of inspiration are gifts, but most of the time, it is the trudging along and continuing to do what is right despite not feeling it that is the ikkar avodah. (There is of course value in that and doing the mitzvos without the spiritual high is much more important than feeling the spirituality but without the actions.)

And my soul tells me that can't be it. Feeling connected is an incredible engine that adds so much depth to davening and all the mitzvos I do. There must be a way to be able to plug into that connection. And I don't feel that the tradition I have received has given me any tools to do that.
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Amalia




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 1:33 pm
Dear OP,

This thread and your posts, especially the last one - are fascinating. Maybe - hopefully - the right person or people will see it and point you in the right direction.

I very much hope and wish for you that your lofty aspirations will not lead you to phony people and phony teachings. Or that, if they do lead you there, your seichel will refuse to follow.
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 4:02 pm
Tamar Taback has some great things on Torah anytime. And she uses alot of Rabbi Katz material. Also Rabbi Tatz.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 4:09 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you so much for saying this, because this is so perfectly representative of everything that frustrates me with our (classical litvish) model of Yiddishkeit.

Besides for those few times in life when I am gifted with inspiration, the other 98% of my life - davening for a few minutes in the morning is enough of a struggle. Davening while constantly fighting to draw my awareness away from the millions of thoughts running through my head back to the basic meaning of the words is the next level up, even harder. And no, it doesn't get easier. It is a struggle every single time.

Even during those moments of inspiration, when my heart is full of yearning, and I feel Hashem's shechina so close, I still feel like I am hitting a wall, some type of barrier, and that there must be a way to transcend that - to be even more connected, I just don't have those tools.

I refuse to believe that this is what G-d intended for us. Our classic tradition is lefum tzara'ah agrah, and that the moments of inspiration are gifts, but most of the time, it is the trudging along and continuing to do what is right despite not feeling it that is the ikkar avodah. (There is of course value in that and doing the mitzvos without the spiritual high is much more important than feeling the spirituality but without the actions.)

And my soul tells me that can't be it. Feeling connected is an incredible engine that adds so much depth to davening and all the mitzvos I do. There must be a way to be able to plug into that connection. And I don't feel that the tradition I have received has given me any tools to do that.


It sounds to me that you may still be searching for the seminary version of frumkeit, where you feel close to G-d every minute. You may need a re-frame on what it means to be spiritual.

A program that promises the supernatural and transcendent is a fraud.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 4:10 pm
Amalia wrote:
I never heard of it, but the words “supernatural life” should clue you in


This. LOL.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 4:50 pm
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
It sounds to me that you may still be searching for the seminary version of frumkeit, where you feel close to G-d every minute. You may need a re-frame on what it means to be spiritual.

A program that promises the supernatural and transcendent is a fraud.


Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion. Again, another classic representation of the mindset in which I was raised. For some reason (must be related to the Gra/BSh"t split) any whiff of desire for spiritual experience is instantly condemned as being misguided or "Baal tshuva" . I am finding it so interesting how the different voices in the discussion in this thread are so accurately portraying the debating voices in my actual struggle. Throughout my upbringing and adult life, I have always had a strong desire to connect deeper than what I was taught, yet teachers and mentors have always warned me not to be "intense". On the other hand, all the descriptions of avodas Hashem in our holy sources are exactly what they would call "intense". One of the first mitzvos in shulchan aruch/mishnah brurah is "shivisi Hashem negdi tamid" - to have an awareness of Hashem at every moment. Is that an attainable thing for "regular" people like us, most of us who go through our lives overwhelmed and barely able to focus on our mundane activities? I don't think so. I think it requires an elevated awareness/consciousness, which to achieve, I have not the tools. That sounds pretty intense to me. Yet this is just one "minor" example of levels described in Torah that we are expected to achieve. And yet these levels are incongruous with the way we are classically taught to live our lives.

Can anyone relate?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 4:52 pm
Amalia wrote:
Dear OP,

This thread and your posts, especially the last one - are fascinating. Maybe - hopefully - the right person or people will see it and point you in the right direction.

I very much hope and wish for you that your lofty aspirations will not lead you to phony people and phony teachings. Or that, if they do lead you there, your seichel will refuse to follow.


You echo the thoughts in my heart. Thank you.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 5:31 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion. Again, another classic representation of the mindset in which I was raised. For some reason (must be related to the Gra/BSh"t split) any whiff of desire for spiritual experience is instantly condemned as being misguided or "Baal tshuva" . I am finding it so interesting how the different voices in the discussion in this thread are so accurately portraying the debating voices in my actual struggle. Throughout my upbringing and adult life, I have always had a strong desire to connect deeper than what I was taught, yet teachers and mentors have always warned me not to be "intense". On the other hand, all the descriptions of avodas Hashem in our holy sources are exactly what they would call "intense". One of the first mitzvos in shulchan aruch/mishnah brurah is "shivisi Hashem negdi tamid" - to have an awareness of Hashem at every moment. Is that an attainable thing for "regular" people like us, most of us who go through our lives overwhelmed and barely able to focus on our mundane activities? I don't think so. I think it requires an elevated awareness/consciousness, which to achieve, I have not the tools. That sounds pretty intense to me. Yet this is just one "minor" example of levels described in Torah that we are expected to achieve. And yet these levels are incongruous with the way we are classically taught to live our lives.

Can anyone relate?


I hear what you're saying. I don't have all the answers. However, one answer that I do have is that this kind of intensity is misplaced. It's exactly what you see from seminary girls when they come back.

You don't have the tools to live with an elevated awareness? Join the club. I'd say 99.99% of people don't. Do you think that's what G-d wants from us?

You're best off learning mussar if you want to elevate your awareness on a day-to-day basis.
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amother




Slategray
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 5:45 pm
Quote:
Thank you so much for saying this, because this is so perfectly representative of everything that frustrates me with our (classical litvish) model of Yiddishkeit.

But umm...I wasn't privileged to grow up like you. I'm a giores. I don't think I understand your frustration because lucky you were handed everything on a plate, while I had to turn my life upside down and spend years searching for the emes! It's a funny world. Smile Anyway, what I said about davening was true for me. Maybe not for you. I don't know. There are all different types in the world.
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 11:22 pm
Rabbi Avigdor Miller gives shiurim about living with H and it's pretty mainstream. I mean you can have an elevated awareness without needing to be intense. For example: you stumble but BH didn't trip and fall flat in your face. Well that's HKBH keeping you safe. And if in that minute you say chasdei Hashem and you realize that you didn't trip and hurt yourself because HKBH guided your body to safety. Then you had an elevated awareness. If your kids ate your dinner and liked it. HKBH put into their minds to enjoy your cooking tonight. It's mundane but it's profound. It's living with Hashem.

Maybe it's not crying into a tehillim. But it's shiviti Hashem. Yes. I'm laying here next to my child that woke up again. Hashem wants that from me at this very moment. And I can take that moment to think about the goodness H gave me. And the snoozing snoring angels he blessed me with. It's shiviti Hashem.
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avrahamama




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 03 2019, 11:27 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion. Again, another classic representation of the mindset in which I was raised. For some reason (must be related to the Gra/BSh"t split) any whiff of desire for spiritual experience is instantly condemned as being misguided or "Baal tshuva" . I am finding it so interesting how the different voices in the discussion in this thread are so accurately portraying the debating voices in my actual struggle. Throughout my upbringing and adult life, I have always had a strong desire to connect deeper than what I was taught, yet teachers and mentors have always warned me not to be "intense". On the other hand, all the descriptions of avodas Hashem in our holy sources are exactly what they would call "intense". One of the first mitzvos in shulchan aruch/mishnah brurah is "shivisi Hashem negdi tamid" - to have an awareness of Hashem at every moment. Is that an attainable thing for "regular" people like us, most of us who go through our lives overwhelmed and barely able to focus on our mundane activities? I don't think so. I think it requires an elevated awareness/consciousness, which to achieve, I have not the tools. That sounds pretty intense to me. Yet this is just one "minor" example of levels described in Torah that we are expected to achieve. And yet these levels are incongruous with the way we are classically taught to live our lives.

Can anyone relate?


By the way I am a BT but really we allll should be BT. Over and over and over again. Every single one of us. Needs to be a BT. So if you want to be a BT and learn something new. Go for it. Enjoy it.

Torah Anytime

Rabbi Glatsein
Rebetzin Tamar Taback
Rabbi Akiva Tatz
Rebetzin Paneth

Read Rabbi Avigdor Miller
Read Rabbi Shimshon Pincus

Enjoy it! Kvell! It's such a pleasure.
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