Home

Imagine the Outrage
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Ravenclaw




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 11:09 am
I used to think that the more stringent you were, the more authentic your yiddishkeit. I used to think that whoever wasn't far right must just be too morally weak, or that "this generation' was falling.

I have since changed my perspective a lot.

Imagine moshiach comes, and the bais hamikdash is built exactly as it was then. How many people can you see rioting at the lack of tznius of the ezras nashim? It was simply a balcony. Any man could crane his neck up and--gasp--see a woman! We need a wall with a reflective mirror or a sheet of plastic with tiny little holes that you can hardly see through.

When you start actually looking at the Torah, it becomes apparent how different the way we do things now is. And not always because we are "worse" and not as stringent.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 11:11 am
Yup, 100%. Very well said.
Back to top

amother




Oak


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 11:21 am
More stringent does not always translate into better Jew, I'd say. Maybe bit off topic but I'm thinking about 2 very frum looking men I encountered around Sha'arei Tzedek hospital when going to appointments. One of them nearly bowled me over because he was so busy avoiding walking through between two other women who were standing in line. The other, much older one who looked like a venerable Rav, held the door open for me and some others (I was just after a painful treatment). Guess which one impressed me more.
Back to top

amother




Green


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 11:23 am
I think in the past, Jewish communities were smaller and more diverse in terms of stringency levels.
Back to top

zaq




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 5:41 pm
Sometimes, people are more stringent out of ignorance or intellectual laziness. As my dad a”h used to say, “ Any am Haaretz can pasken tref. Paskening kosher takes a talmid chochom.”

So rather than find out what’s what, some people —I dare say quite a few—decide that this and this is tref (in the literal or metaphorical sense) and then consider themselves holier than everyone else.

And then there are the stringencies instituted at a certain time and place specifically in response to some situation peculiar to that time and place. For example, if you were G-d forbid trapped in Taliban-run Afghanistan, you probably WOULD have to wear a burqa, not because failure to do so violates any Jewish laws but because failure to do so could get you killed. There would be no reason to keep the burqa once you escaped yo the West.

Which is not to imply G-d forbid that everyone who is machmir is a lazy, ignorant hypocrite. Just realize that being more machmir does not NECESSARILY mean having more yir’at Shamayim.
Back to top

trixx




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 6:32 pm
How about - I was thinking this past week - Yaakov kisses rochel in the parsha. If the Torah were being written by any Jewish author today let alone a rav, that sentence would been edited out so fast.
Back to top

amother




Cyan


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 6:41 pm
I love you guys!
Back to top

thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 6:44 pm
trixx wrote:
How about - I was thinking this past week - Yaakov kisses rochel in the parsha. If the Torah were being written by any Jewish author today let alone a rav, that sentence would been edited out so fast.

Actually, I just learned about that ! I had no idea that the Torah said that Yaakov kissed Rachel until last week when I went to a class and it was mentioned. They censored that when we were taught in school.


Last edited by thunderstorm on Mon, Dec 02 2019, 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

bigsis144




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 6:46 pm
trixx wrote:
How about - I was thinking this past week - Yaakov kisses rochel in the parsha. If the Torah were being written by any Jewish author today let alone a rav, that sentence would been edited out so fast.


And Artscroll only gives the sanitized, metaphorical translation of Shir HaShirim (unless you read the extended small-font commentaries).

But I’m in before all the “you can’t judge the figures of Tanach!! They are greater than you can even imagine and even their seeming aveiros were at a level of holiness you will never reach!!! Niskatnu hadoros!!!! How low our generation is to even INTERPRET Tanach in such a crass pshat way!!!”
Back to top

thunderstorm




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 6:47 pm
I don’t think there will be any outrage when Moshiach comes. We will all finally be able to have our “ah-hah” moment when we finally have clarity on everything. There will no longer be this questioning of what’s right or wrong. It will all be so clear to us and we will feel so happy and at peace when we finally know the truth. This confused , sometimes overly stringent life we live is all part of galus. We really don’t know who is doing the right thing.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 7:11 pm
trixx wrote:
How about - I was thinking this past week - Yaakov kisses rochel in the parsha. If the Torah were being written by any Jewish author today let alone a rav, that sentence would been edited out so fast.


When he met her she was a little girl.
Back to top

amother




Blush


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 7:19 pm
southernbubby wrote:
When he met her she was a little girl.


I don’t think that would make any difference, today.
Back to top

amother




Taupe


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 7:26 pm
trixx wrote:
How about - I was thinking this past week - Yaakov kisses rochel in the parsha. If the Torah were being written by any Jewish author today let alone a rav, that sentence would been edited out so fast.


Interesting point. But aren't we all guilty then? Meaning we are all putting up barriers that the Torah felt wasn't necessary. Would you want your son kissing a girl before marriage? Surely not! But it was good enough for yackov avinu.
Back to top

bigsis144




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 7:28 pm
southernbubby wrote:
When he met her she was a little girl.


Rochel was a little girl?

I know of the opinion that Rivka was 3 upon her betrothal/marriage, but not Rachel? Was the seven years working for her to allow her to grow up?

(Even so, I don’t want anyone crying and kissing a *child* they’d never met even if they said they knew by Ruach HaKodesh that they were soulmates who’d be buried apart...)
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 7:31 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
Rochel was a little girl?

I know of the opinion that Rivka was 3 upon her betrothal/marriage, but not Rachel? Was the seven years working for her to allow her to grow up?

(Even so, I don’t want anyone crying and kissing a *child* they’d never met even if they said they knew by Ruach HaKodesh that they were soulmates who’d be buried apart...)


Somewhere I learned that Rochel was 6 when she met Yaacov at the well.
Back to top

amother




Jade


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 8:23 pm
Yep, and everyone was barefoot in the Beis Hamikdosh!

I struggle with this as I put on stockings each day of the summer 😬
Back to top

amother




Orange


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 8:35 pm
Being stringent in areas of modesty is something to be admired and looked up to. The Chofetz Chaim said that there is no limit in tznius- modesty is our biggest protection - the more stringent the better!
The problem today is that many women don't want to make the sacrifice to be more modest- so they'll say that being more machmir is not important etc... this justifies their choices.
In the next world the majority of a woman's reward and punishment will be based on her modest (Peleh yoetz)
This is why the yetzer hora is making sure so many women fail in this area
Back to top

Ravenclaw




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 8:38 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
Rochel was a little girl?

I know of the opinion that Rivka was 3 upon her betrothal/marriage, but not Rachel? Was the seven years working for her to allow her to grow up?

(Even so, I don’t want anyone crying and kissing a *child* they’d never met even if they said they knew by Ruach HaKodesh that they were soulmates who’d be buried apart...)


She was 15.

https://judaism.stackexchange......rried
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 8:42 pm
Ravenclaw wrote:
She was 15.

https://judaism.stackexchange......rried


She was engaged for 7 years so they met when she was 8.
Back to top

Ravenclaw




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Dec 02 2019, 8:48 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
Actually, I just learned about that ! I had no idea that the Torah said that Yaakov kissed Rachel until last week when I went to a class and it was mentioned. They censored that when we were taught in school.


And by the way, I do just want to point out that it wasn’t an er0tic kiss, Rabbi Hirsch says the fact that he was crying is proof that it was emotional on meeting his family member, not anything else. But the fact that we censor that out is still what I was trying to bring out in my OP.
Back to top
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 10 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Imagine Hashem could send you a loving text...
by Cheiny
30 Yesterday at 1:12 am View last post
Imagine
by crust
36 Mon, Jun 03 2019, 5:43 pm View last post
Imagine a hate button with option to view most hated posts:)
by amother
2 Sun, Oct 15 2017, 2:55 am View last post
Imagine I would've payed full price!!!
by amother
21 Wed, Feb 08 2017, 10:23 am View last post
How do u imagine Olam H'emes?
by Tefila
7 Thu, Mar 17 2016, 2:14 am View last post

Jump to: