Imagine the Outrage

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Imagine the Outrage

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amother

Apricot

Sat, Dec 07 2019, 8:45 pm

TBH, I suspect that Amother Orange is the same one who had multiple threads closed down for proselytizing on the subject of how she thinks (based on reading a book) that shaitels are bad unless they are wiggy and ugly and the rest of us are sadly misinformed or just prefer to be provocative.

Amother Orange: Does your DH shave or trim? Because BOY do I have a book for you.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:20 am

If anyone doesnt thing the erasure of women has not gone too far, what do you say about the following pictures? Veey disturbing in my opinion.
https://I.imgur.com/eZUP6FE.jpg

singleagain

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:24 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

If anyone doesnt thing the erasure of women has not gone too far, what do you say about the following pictures? Veey disturbing in my opinion.
https://I.imgur.com/eZUP6FE.jpg

😮 I could barely even tell that one was a lady.

singleagain

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:25 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

If anyone doesnt thing the erasure of women has not gone too far, what do you say about the following pictures? Veey disturbing in my opinion.
https://I.imgur.com/eZUP6FE.jpg

By the way... Here's the image directly

amother

Green

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:27 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

A woman could look nice and dignified while being tznius. But there is a big misunderstanding about what is attracting to men- we've become desensitized to what men find alluring. But the Torah spells it out very clearly- and as it says in Rav Falks sefer there are many Torah sources stating that hair is the main beauty of a woman and that is why a married woman covers her hair- to ensure she does not cause men to look at her inappropriately.

Then why isn't it the ultimate fulfillment of this mitzvah to shave the head bald and wear no covering in order to show men that there is no hair?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 2:38 am

Orange wrote:

Quote:

We do not cover body parts that are considered ervah with clothing that looks just like the body parts underneath. We are supposed to be concealing those body parts.
A married woman's hair become ervah- covering hair with nicer hair defeats the entire point of covering the hair! Ironically many secular and not frum Jews see the hypocrisy of today's wigs right away.

No, it does not. There is no halacha that a woman can not look beautiful in her hair covering. The point of the mitzvah is not to make the woman look ugly.

Quote:

Btw in the book Adorned with Dignity it explains (with sources) how in the times of the Gemara women only wore wigs inside the house to beautify themselves for their husbands ( if their hair was thin, white, balding etc...) when they went out they covered their wig entirely with a tichel. The wig was not used as a head covering in public.
The whole practice of wearing a sheitel in public started about 200 years ago in Russia when the czar decreed that women could not wear scarves outside anymore so the Rabbanim at that time allowed the Jewish women to wear very wiggy wigs outside instead of going around bare headed. And even on these wiggy wigs there was a fiery debate among poskim with many not allowing even the wiggy wigs.

But thats how it is in the world. New things become available and trends change as do what jewish people wear.
Do you think any of us are dressed how bnei yisrael dressed in the midbar? Not even a little bit. No stockings, no skirts.
It was long robes and most probably sandals. Dont compare 200 years ago with what people wear today.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 2:43 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Tznius is not at all about being ugly- but it is about not provoking men.
A woman could look nice and dignified while being tznius. But there is a big misunderstanding about what is attracting to men- we've become desensitized to what men find alluring. But the Torah spells it out very clearly- and as it says in Rav Falks sefer there are many Torah sources stating that hair is the main beauty of a woman and that is why a married woman covers her hair- to ensure she does not cause men to look at her inappropriately.

Orange, no, tzniut has nothing to do with men. The first time I ever heard that approach was here on imamother. I had never heard of that before. We always learned about tzniut being something unto itself that both males and females have to do, in different ways, but that was that.
To make tzniut about men being weak, is unfair to both men and women. Men are stronger than that and they shouldnt look inf they are not, and women are more than just stumbling blocks for men.

And for the umteenth time, Rav Falk wrote his book meant ONLY for his community in england (was in manchester? I cant remmeber exactly) so please, stop quoting that book. It is not meant for most of us here.

saw50st8

Mon, Dec 09 2019, 5:29 am

southernbubby wrote:

I do agree with you that it's nice of people to help because they are under no obligation. They could decide not to help someone who can't respect them for a couple of hours.
Most people won't physically attack someone for wearing short sleeves; they just may not be friendly.

Southernbubby, please define respect. The way you seem to define it is as "complying with the way I want things to be." To me, that's the utmost disrespectful way to treat someone else.

I am completely against black hat culture and think it has ruined Orthodox Judaism, but I would never ask someone to take their black hat off in my home because I found it offensive. I think that would be so disrespectful to the other person. You seem to think that it wouldn't be a big deal for me to ask that? I could easily provide a man a second kippah to put on his head as a "double covering" if he needed to daven so it isn't a religious issue that is unavoidable.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sat, Feb 01 2020, 10:44 am

saw50st8 wrote:

The difference between you and the people dressing ultra modestly (ie just trying to follow Halacha) is that being respectful is following their actual religion. The fact that you are against black hats or gag by people that button their top button is your personal opinion and not based on something religious like Halacha from the Torah. I get nauseas from fleece sweaters but it’s not disrespectful if someone knows this and still wears one anyway and I never in my life would ask them not to wear one. However if I am making an event with other frum women such as a shower for one less frum or non religious it would disrespectful for her not to show up dressed with some respect to our Halachos(and not even a Bais Yaakov girl look, just not arms and legs all uncovered and no offensive sayings in clothing, etc) it would be a sign of respect and gratitude for her to show up maybe with a knee length skirt and collarbone and elbows covered.

I really don’t get many people on this thread. We are on this world to be avdei Hashem, become close to Him and do the mitzvos. Why are people so against basic Halacha. I don’t think someone is less then me when if they are in a lower level of let’s say tznius but we shouldnt be against people that are trying to reach higher levels of any part of avodas Hashem. It should be celebrated. I know it’s hard to keep Halacha but life is not meant to be only doing thing that are easy for us. Obviously everyone has their own levels of what they are up to and should respect other people that are more or less stringent than them. But we should all be striving to be better people and work on all areas of avodas Hashem. If someone wants to be more tznius by taking on chumras, good for them. If there are mechitzas in shuls to keep the men and women separate good (there is the concept of keeping men and women seperate from the Simchas Beit hashoava in the Bais hamikdash)

BH5745

Sat, Feb 01 2020, 11:04 am

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the irony of people thinking Hashem or Moschiach or whoever will be outraged because other people aren't doing Yiddishkeit just right? This one is too frum (hence not really frum because "that's not Judaism"), that one isn't frum enough (hence not frum because "that also isn't Judaism"). If you want to know what golus is- that's it, it's being imprisoned in your own mind, to your own emotions and reflecting your limitations onto the world and others around you. When Moschiach returns and the Shechinah is restored, the only thing Jews will feel is simcha- because we stayed Jews for thousands of years. fine so we made mistakes, but at least we tried! None of us will be embarrassed about anything, or think anything bad about anyone, because we'll be beyond that limited thinking. And Hashem- yes, He too is beyond a limited mentality. Maybe whether you fight for modest pictures or women to be in public view, Hashem will be equally proud of you for caring about what our Tatty/Aba in Shamayim wants, and for just staying a Jew. After all, we don't know exactly what Hashem wants, so He won't hold it against us when we tried to figure it out and failed.

naturalmom5

Sat, Feb 01 2020, 7:21 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

If anyone doesnt thing the erasure of women has not gone too far, what do you say about the following pictures? Veey disturbing in my opinion.
https://I.imgur.com/eZUP6FE.jpg

I will do one better

http://thevoiceoflakewood.com/......html

This weeks issue
Parshas Bo

Page 92

There is a picture of a chuppa with no calka
Is the guy in the streiml marrying the guy in the kittel

singleagain

Sat, Feb 01 2020, 7:27 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

The link didn't show a picture for me.

Ravenclaw

Sat, Feb 01 2020, 7:53 pm

BH5745 wrote:

FYI I meant imagine the fanatics being outraged that the bais hamikdash isn’t frum enough for them.

Not that moshiach or Hashem would be outraged.

But my thread went waaay off topic so whatever.

naturalmom5

Sat, Feb 01 2020, 9:46 pm

singleagain wrote:

The link didn't show a picture for me.

http://thevoiceoflakewood.com/......html

Flip to page 92

singleagain

Sat, Feb 01 2020, 10:39 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

http://thevoiceoflakewood.com/3dissue/013020/index.html

Flip to page 92

Excellent question...

And just in case anyone else has trouble or the link expires or something... Here's a snapshot

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