Not vaxxing CAN BE a religious issue!

amother

Peach

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:33 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

No measles deaths in US. Hundreds of deaths reported following vaccines EVERY year!

YOU show some respect!

You have got to be kidding me LOL

amother

Peach

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:36 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

It's really mind boggling how so many people on this board know vaccine injured people, yet the entire larger world is only able to come up with just a mere few. So is it that we are more susceptible to vaccine injury? Or is it that those with inherent fears of them automatically link any childhood condition to them? Or is it that the rest of the world is mindfully burying their heads in the sand and just don't care about their own children?

Which one makes the most sense?

I'll tell you what it is, they know of someone that was vaccinated and the next day had fever and a runny nose! To them that's enough to count as a vaccine injury.

#BestBubby

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:46 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I'll tell you what it is, they know of someone that was vaccinated and the next day had fever and a runny nose! To them that's enough to count as a vaccine injury.

My nephew received 7 vaccines in one day - the day he finished three rounds of antibiotics for recurring ear infections.

My sister took him to audiologist - thought nephew was deaf because he stopped responding - even to his name. Nephew was diagnosed with autism right after those
7 vaccines in one day.

Low functioning. Suffers terrible pain every day. THAT'S a Vaccine Injury
and it is a TRAGEDY - not a joke.

#BestBubby

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:48 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

No measles deaths in US. Hundreds of deaths reported following vaccines EVERY year!

YOU show some respect!

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

You have got to be kidding me LOL

Shame on you, Peach! You think the hundreds of deaths following vaccination is a laughing matter??? No wonder you post anonymously.

amother

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:49 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

The current situation is only because of the abuse people rendered upon it. Prior to the onslaught, valid medical exemptions were almost of no issue. (key word being valid.)

Of course they were. Medical exemptions on NYS have always been nearly impossible to get unless your kid was dead. Hence the overabundance of religious exemptions. It was easier to go for a RE than a ME, especially for subsequent children whom parents were understandably reluctant to vaccinate for fear of genetic vulnerability.

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:49 pm

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

You are comparing parents who deny their perfectly healthy child preventative medical treatment to parents who deny their sick child lifesaving medical treatment while they are in acute and 'active' danger. Do you see why your comparison makes no sense and has zero validity?

Did you read OP's article? People who had legitimate concerns based on the reactions of their older children asked rabbonim whether or not to vaccinate subsequent children. The question in the article was not about whether or not to provide preventative care based on beliefs alone.
I brought up the X-tian Scientists because the original laws were probably about people like them, whose religion prevented even life-saving care.
Please chill; I am not comparing anti-vaxers to X-tian Scientists. One that I know, however, attempted to cure a friend's breast cancer with MLM blue green algae but luckily the friend refused. That is what I meant by running to quacks.

amother

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:53 pm

Can we please ignore trolling-type posts and keep this thread on topic? Thanks

amother

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:54 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Its not proof of anything. There was nothing to prove.

All the letter said was - this country has freedom of religion - religious Jews should be allowed to ask their Orthodox Rabbis if Vaccination opposes their religion.

I frankly don't see where that gets anybody on this board.

It is proof from Orthodox Rabbis that some people who oppose vaccines do so based on their religious beliefs, as directed to them by their Rabbis.
I quote from the letter: As such, the decision whether to vaccinate is truly a religious one.

amother

Denim

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:54 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

The difference between the reactions to seat belts and vaccine is macroscopic vs microscopic. We literally see the seat belt saving lives, so we accept the small numbers of harm that they cause. With vaccines, it's a microscopic world hidden inside our bodies, so we cannot see the magnitude of their life-saving ability. With a life saved, we see nothing. We only see something if harm was caused. So to the mind's eye its only the harm that's present. And to the many who haven't lived prior to the advent of vaccines, can literally not fathom the extent of how many lives the vaccines saved.

All through history, 100% healthy toddlers have become sick. Regression was always around, as was not being able to diagnose conditions because of conditions unknown. Just because we can now label every condition, and we know more than ever before, doesn't mean that all these conditions are new to the world.

And the argument as all doctors are in bed with the pharmaceutical companies, and don't have minds of their own, is just a smear campaign. Do you really think that if the number of injuries are so large as you claim, that all these doctors would be turning a blind eye to it? Maybe some here and there, but the large majority of them? Do you truly believe that hundreds and thousands of doctors are operating in an unethical manner?

The long term adverse effects many parents are afraid of also fall into the category of microscopic. When a child receives a hep b vaccine which was tested for 4 or 5 days, there is no knowing what havoc it is wreaking in the child's body. Because children generally don't drop dead a day after a vaccine, so nobody takes note of the slow development of auto immune issues, neurological inflammation, immune system damage etc. Because it happens deep inside their body in a slow insidious way, and nobody is bothering to try to find out what caused it. It is just treated as an independent issue and the child is given a cocktail of meds to help him manage his symptoms.

The ability to diagnose problems certainly improved. And you know what else improved? The ability to heal sicknesses and diseases which were a death sentence 100 years ago. So why are we seeing a decline in the life expectancy of children after we saw such a steep incline? The same vaccines who are purportedly responsible for the incline in life expectancy are given now more than ever! shouldn't that make children live till a ripe old age? Why the recent decline? Why is the infant mortality rate rising at an alarmingly quick speed?

Many doctors are opening their eyes to the reality of what the jam packed vaccine program is doing to our children. Many brave ones are stepping out of the woodwork and joining concerned parents in demanding that the government and our regulatory agencies should look into it. They are doing it at the risk of losing their license, being called a quack, and even dying "mysterious" death. Because what the are seeing is sickening.
Then there are the doctors who are uncomfortable with what they are witnessing yet are too chicken to voice their concerns out loud for fear of losing their livelihood, the career they work hard to build and their safety. They are not operating in an unethical manner. They are operating out of fear of the consequences.

The fact that pharma sponsors approx 60% of the mainstream news anchors should explain a bit, why only certain topics and news stories will be reported while others are shoved under the carpet.

The fact that the pharmaceutical companies face zero liability regardless of what their vaccines may do to people may give you a clue as to why safety tests are anywhere between 4 days and 4 months long. It also explains why there are hundreds of vaccines in the pipeline waiting to be recommended and then mandated for you to inject in your baby. It's a definite win for them, so why not?

The fact that the only vaccine that was ever tested against an inert placebo is the Gardasil vaccine, and the results were seriously twisted should help you understand why many parents are hesitant to enroll their children in a forced post marketing surveillance group.

Perhaps, take the time to watch some of the ACIP meeting where they approve the use of vaccines, watch Dr. Stanley Plotkin's nine hour deposition, watch some of the independent debates between respected doctors on both sides and maybe you'll get a glimpse into the minds of us, irresponsible, selfish, crunchy, illiterate parents and you might discover that we are not so stupid after all.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:06 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No its not proof of that.

They are arguing that whether to vaccinate falls into the category of medical care that everyone should be able to consult with their Rabbi about.

It is not proof that some people who oppose vaccines do so based on their religious beliefs.

I don't know the language of the current NJ exemption. I also don't know if Rabbis are sitting down and discussing each person's individual circumstances before delivering their psak that vaccination does not suit the person.

#BestBubby

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:14 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Currently any parent can just say I have a sincere religious belief against
vaccinations and get an exemption.

But Pharameutical Industry has given $$$ to NJ Officials to get them to take away
the religious exemption in NJ - and in every other state.

And medical exemptions are nearly impossible to get.

Voila - no more 100% unvaxxed kids so there can never be a Vax vs UnVax Study
proving the tremendous harm caused by vaccines. Mission accomplished.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:17 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

This comment was not a response to my post.

creditcards

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:38 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Very possible that I and my surrounding people are more susceptible to injury. (There is a lot of allergies and autoimmune diseases in my family and those people are most susceptible) The 2 cases that I know are very clear cut. Was not linked because of anxieties. I don't believe people would mindful bury there head in these clear cut situations that I experienced. One of the cases I was talking about happened very recently and the mother used to be one of the harrasers.

amother

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:49 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Maybe I'm slow or something, but please explain it to me. What is the difference between your first sentence and your second? If my Rabbi tells me not to vaccinate (because it may be a medical danger to my child), how is that not a religious belief?

amother

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:58 pm

creditcards wrote:

Unfortunately this is not as rare as we think. People deny vaccine injury until it hits them in their face. I would never have believed until it happened to me

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 10:43 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Avoiding medical danger is based on a religious belief.

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 10:51 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Unfortunately this is not as rare as we think. People deny vaccine injury until it hits them in their face. I would never have believed until it happened to me

The problem isn't in linking reactions that happen in close proximity to the event. It is harder to prove causation, however, if months or years have elapsed.
After my son had seizures s few hours after the flu shot, we spoke to the CDC in Atlanta and they agreed that the shot caused the seizures. I didn't get the feeling that they totally dismiss bad reactions.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Dec 08 2019, 11:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Where is the belief in that sentence?

Back to what I wrote. There was nothing to prove. Nothing in that letter was about proof.

The letter said 'everything for a Jewish person is religion.' Which I agree with. Judaism dictates how we should act in basically all aspects of our lives.

It was, to me anyway, very clear that the letter was written such a to say that a Jewish person needs to consult with Rabbis before making significant medical decisions. So to claim a religious exemption would require a Jewish person to consult their Rabbi on what to do - and he would need to have religious support (not just - hey do what you feel) support for his advice.

#BestBubby

Mon, Dec 09 2019, 12:22 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Religious exemption law requires NOTHING except a parent saying that not vaccinating is his/her sincere religious belief.

State officials (who accepted Big $$$ from pharmaceutical industry) are saying that since No Major Religion is against vaccination, they will take away the religious exemption.

The BMG Rabbis are arguing that although Judaism doesn't oppose vaccination in general, Judaism may FORBID certain INDIVIDUALS (who have had bad vaccine reactions) to vaccinate. And therefore, the religious exemption must stay.

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Dec 09 2019, 12:31 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Religious exemption law requires NOTHING except a parent saying that not vaccinating is his/her sincere religious belief.

State officials are saying that since No Major Religion is against vaccination, they will take away the religious exemption.

The BMG Rabbis are arguing that although Judaism doesn't oppose vaccination in general, Judaism may FORBID certain INDIVIDUALS (who have had bad vaccine reactions) to vaccinate. And therefore, the religious exemption must stay.

I edited your sidebar, it makes it easier to read.

Otherwise - Yes - I agree with you.

Based on the Rabbis letter NJ should modify their religious exemption language to require a Rabbi's reasoning why this person should not vaccinate.