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Not vaxxing CAN BE a religious issue!
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amother




Pumpkin
 

Post  Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:07 pm
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
Awesome.

Are you very literal by nature?
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:08 pm
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
how do you define 'anti vaxxer'?

I consider it to people who are against vaccinations, conceptually.


According to the establishment, anyone who questions even one shot in the CDC schedule (all 72 shots - and growing) or wants to delay even one shot - is an
"anti-vaxxer" "kook" and a menace to society.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:50 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
According to the establishment, anyone who questions even one shot in the CDC schedule (all 72 shots - and growing) or wants to delay even one shot - is an
"anti-vaxxer" "kook" and a menace to society.


It depends on to whom the person questions the one shot.
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amother




Tangerine
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 10:08 am
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
Are you very literal by nature?


If I take your question literally, the answer is, I don't know.

If you are just trying to point out that I was picking apart peoples posts based on how they are written.... well done. Pet-peeve of mine is the misuse of the terms"proof" and "proves".

I think word choice matters a lot when trying make a logical, and persuasive argument.
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 10:20 am
If you have a religious exemption, the yeshiva has every right not to accept you, because their religion allows vaccines, so you must belong to the wrong religion for the school!
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:34 pm
amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
If you have a religious exemption, the yeshiva has every right not to accept you, because their religion allows vaccines, so you must belong to the wrong religion for the school!


If you have a religious exemption because your child had a bad vaccine reaction, most yeshivas would accept you.

If you have a religious exemption because you believe vaccines are too risky for
any child than yeshivas will not accept you. Until recently yeshivas used to accept religious exemptions but yeshivas have been pressured not to. At this
point the faculty and student body doesn't want yeshivas to accept unvaxed unless there is a medical reason.
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amother




Tangerine
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:46 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
If you have a religious exemption because your child had a bad vaccine reaction, most yeshivas would accept you.

If you have a religious exemption because you believe vaccines are too risky for
any child than yeshivas will not accept you. Until recently yeshivas used to accept religious exemptions but yeshivas have been pressured not to. At this
point the faculty and student body doesn't want yeshivas to accept unvaxed unless there is a medical reason.


What do you think, within the Orthodox Community, is the breakdown, percentage-wise between (a) "I'm not vaccinating my children - I'm against vaccination" and (b) I'm not vaccinating my child because of medical history.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:12 pm
In many frum schools, much of the staff is pregnant and during the outbreak they wouldn't teach children who were not vaccinated. I am not sure how they regarded those with medical exemptions.
Schools and dorms with OOT students have nobody to care for students who are sick and infectious diseases spread quickly in dorms. It is understandable that during an outbreak, they don't want someone who is likely to be sick.
As we have also said thousands of times here, these schools turn down kids because they have computers at home or the mothers get pedicures so if they don't want someone, they will find a way to get rid of them.
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amother




Brown
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 6:39 am
Many of the rabbanim who signed are very pro vax. One of them will advise schools not to accept un-vaxxed kids.
This is a concern about religious freedoms being taken away and the precedence it can set. What is next? No Bris Mila?

(Only reb Aryeh Malkiel Kotler is anti vax
. Rav Katz is very natural minded - like doesn’t like bc with hormones - but I don’t know his stance on vaccines)
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Dec 16 2019, 10:12 pm
Quote from the link below. I bolded certain lines for emphasis:
Quote:

They’ve won the support of several lawmakers, for instance, Republican Assembly minority leader, Jon Bramnick of Union County. In floor debate before the bill’s passing, Mr. Bramnick predicted the invoice too wide.

“To inform a physician that they can’t use their skill, their experience, to compose an exemption handcuffs physicians,” he explained, referring to language in the bill which also illuminates the principles for awarding medical exemptions.

One of those opposing the bill would be the country’s primary ultra-Orthodox Jewish umbrella organization, Agudath Israel of America, that will be now taking a more active part in combating the step in New Jersey than it did in New York.

New Jersey is home to the greatest Orthodox yeshiva from the nation, Beth Medrash Govoha, that will be in Lakewood and contains approximately 7,000 pupils.



While many Orthodox Jews vaccinate their kids, lots of rabbinical authorities”are extremely worried about this bill” since it frees vaccines in these instances where a rabbi can determine they’re unwarranted, said Avi Schnall, the New Jersey manager of Agudath Israel of America.

This type of circumstance, he explained, could arise in cases where a household believes it’s two children injured by vaccines, and is debating whether to vaccinate a third kid. Many rabbis would indicate that such a child shouldn’t be vaccinated, ” he explained.

“There’s a spiritual element to vaccines,” he explained. “And for your nation to get rid of the religious exemption, it sets a precedent, it starts a slippery incline. Plus it is not a fantastic spot for the nation to be telling people,’We do not believe this to be spiritual, therefore we’re taking it off. ”’


https://theunionjournal.com/n-.....laws/

Too late for NY, but at least NJ is safe for now. Oh well. As I said in my OP, I'm glad NJ has learned something from the mistakes of NY.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Dec 16 2019, 10:32 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Quote from the link below. I bolded certain lines for emphasis:
Quote:

They’ve won the support of several lawmakers, for instance, Republican Assembly minority leader, Jon Bramnick of Union County. In floor debate before the bill’s passing, Mr. Bramnick predicted the invoice too wide.

“To inform a physician that they can’t use their skill, their experience, to compose an exemption handcuffs physicians,” he explained, referring to language in the bill which also illuminates the principles for awarding medical exemptions.

One of those opposing the bill would be the country’s primary ultra-Orthodox Jewish umbrella organization, Agudath Israel of America, that will be now taking a more active part in combating the step in New Jersey than it did in New York.

New Jersey is home to the greatest Orthodox yeshiva from the nation, Beth Medrash Govoha, that will be in Lakewood and contains approximately 7,000 pupils.



While many Orthodox Jews vaccinate their kids, lots of rabbinical authorities”are extremely worried about this bill” since it frees vaccines in these instances where a rabbi can determine they’re unwarranted, said Avi Schnall, the New Jersey manager of Agudath Israel of America.

This type of circumstance, he explained, could arise in cases where a household believes it’s two children injured by vaccines, and is debating whether to vaccinate a third kid. Many rabbis would indicate that such a child shouldn’t be vaccinated, ” he explained.

“There’s a spiritual element to vaccines,” he explained. “And for your nation to get rid of the religious exemption, it sets a precedent, it starts a slippery incline. Plus it is not a fantastic spot for the nation to be telling people,’We do not believe this to be spiritual, therefore we’re taking it off. ”’


https://theunionjournal.com/n-.....laws/

Too late for NY, but at least NJ is safe for now. Oh well. As I said in my OP, I'm glad NJ has learned something from the mistakes of NY.


The NJ Senate has postponed the vote. Anti-Vaxxers are celebrating but
we are not safe yet.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:55 pm
And again... the bill in NJ, which was amended to increase its chance of passing, was defeated today. Hodu L'Hashem! An estimated 10,000 protestors showed up today in Trenton to show their opposition to this bill.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 11:11 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
And again... the bill in NJ, which was amended to increase its chance of passing, was defeated today. Hodu L'Hashem! An estimated 10,000 protestors showed up today in Trenton to show their opposition to this bill.


10,0000 Protesters! Thank you for protecting FREEDOM in USA.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 11:19 pm
The Battle is not over. Those bribed by pharmaceutical industry will introduce the bill again:

Senate President Stephen Sweeney, D-Gloucester, said the lawmakers would reintroduce the bill Tuesday and restart the entire process.

“We’re ready to go to war with this,” Sweeney said Monday.


https://www.northjersey.com/st.....5002/
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Wed, Jan 15 2020, 7:40 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
10,0000 Protesters! Thank you for protecting FREEDOM in USA.

Pro-life is not anti-freedom.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jan 15 2020, 8:00 pm
amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
Pro-life is not anti-freedom.


Vaccines can injure and kill. Says so on the Vaccine Inserts. Vaccine Court has paid $4.2 Billion for Deaths and Injuries from vaccines.

Injecting people against their will with substances that CAN cause death/injury IS anti-freedom.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jan 15 2020, 8:32 pm
In NJ, they had many more protesters than in NY and religious schools would not have been impacted. They would have been allowed to include non vaccinated children.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Jan 15 2020, 8:46 pm
southernbubby wrote:
In NJ, they had many more protesters than in NY and religious schools would not have been impacted. They would have been allowed to include non vaccinated children.

This was the amended version which was amended last minute after the previous version didn't get enough votes to pass.

NJ had the benefit of hindsight, seeing the difficulties NY went through after their repeal. Also Trenton is more locally situated than Albany.
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shaqued_almond




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jan 15 2020, 9:14 pm
The case for giving religious exemptions for medical problems is logically flawed. It sounds like : I'm afraid /had experiences with bad reactions, however my doctors still disagree with me and won't provide me a medical exemption so I'm going to get a religious exemption because according to halacha if a medical problem exists I may make an exception for pikuach nefesh.... The anti vax rabbis are making a case for an expansion of medical exemptions under the banner of a religious exemption. What I'm not understanding is if one's child has been injured through vaccines why can't they sue the manufacturer for the injury or at least get the doctor who gave the vaccine to agree with them. It makes little sense that non-medical professionals decide medical measures without any support from the professionals in this field. The way anti vaxxers go about their agenda is wrong, it doesn't help their children or others and people just see them as loons. I've heard anti-vaxxers say things like "if you're not supporting vaccine freedom you're not a real feminist /youre an accessory to murder/ you're an accessory to rape" .Most kids are fine getting vaccines, now that more kids are getting them they can be improved and studied better. And even with vaccine damage, child mortality and injury is much lower than it was before vaccines were introduced.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Jan 15 2020, 9:18 pm
shaqued_almond wrote:
The case for giving religious exemptions for medical problems is logically flawed. It sounds like : I'm afraid /had experiences with bad reactions, however my doctors still disagree with me and won't provide me a medical exemption so I'm going to get a religious exemption because according to halacha if a medical problem exists I may make an exception for pikuach nefesh.... The anti vax rabbis are making a case for an expansion of medical exemptions under the banner of a religious exemption. What I'm not understanding is if one's child has been injured through vaccines why can't they sue the manufacturer for the injury or at least get the doctor who gave the vaccine to agree with them. It makes little sense that non-medical professionals decide medical measures without any support from the professionals in this field. The way anti vaxxers go about their agenda is wrong, it doesn't help their children or others and people just see them as loons. I've heard anti-vaxxers say things like "if you're not supporting vaccine freedom you're not a real feminist /youre an accessory to murder/ you're an accessory to rape" .Most kids are fine getting vaccines, now that more kids are getting them they can be improved and studied better. And even with vaccine damage, child mortality and injury is much lower than it was before vaccines were introduced.


The bolded is a good question. The answer is because vaccine manufacturers cannot be sued. It is against federal law. This law was passed in 1986. Anti-vaxxers have been vociferous in their demands to make them liable again. It's easier to fight something BEFORE it turns into law rather than reversing a law that's already in place.

As for why the professionals in the medical field aren't giving their support, that is completely false. There are plenty of doctors who agree with pro choice regarding vaccines, who advocate delayed or selective vaccination, who have testified about their opinions.
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