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-> Interesting Discussions
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amother
OP
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 Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:08 pm
We spent Shabbat at a different community that we're thinking of moving to. The Shul only has Cholent at Kiddush if it's specifically sponsored by someone. If nobody sponsors the cholent, the regular kiddush (whether someone sponsors or not, apparently) is just a very basic thing. (Cholent happened to be sponsored this Shabbat, and as it turns out, it was very disappointing cholent!)
I've read about this (no Cholent unless specifically sponsored) on here before, but never seen it at any of the local shuls we frequent. It just seems patronizing and infantilizing, as if we were in elementary school and the teacher is punishing the entire class because nobody stepped up to sponsor the cholent.
This is a fairly well off community that appears to have plenty of machers contributing to big capital projects. Also, membership dues for this shul are upwards of $2000/year. It strikes me as unlikely that the shul really can't afford to put out cholent if nobody happens to sponsor it. Or how much would it cost to increase everyone's dues to cover the actual cost of a parve cholent even? Can't be that much. The whole thing just seems tacky to me.
BTW, I really like how our shul does the Kiddish. We have a huge Kiddush every week and sponsorship is really affordable ($180 or $200 I think) and doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of the Kiddush. The idea is to make it cheap so that it's not a big deal for people to sponsor fairly regularly for minor simchas -- kids' birthdays, anniversary, just because. We often have 2-3 sponsors in any given week. Other shuls make a full kiddush sponsorship $500-1000, and that just makes people only want to sponsor for really special occasions.
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Ruchel
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:09 pm
Who will pay?
(ok sorry just saw people pay)
I would complain
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allthingsblue
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:09 pm
Don't cry over spilled cholent
(They do this in my shul too. It doesn't seem tacky to me, seems like a way to spend the memebership $ where it's actually needed, not to go to waste.)
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groisamomma
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:16 pm
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Wow, kiddush every week? Courtesy of the shul? We only have a kiddush if there's a simcha.
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happyone
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:18 pm
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we eat our.cholent at home unless there's a sponsored simcha! who do you expect to sponsor weekly?
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amother
Babyblue
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:19 pm
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In my community there's only a shul kiddush when there's a simcha. Why would the shul sponsor a kiddush every week?
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amother
Indigo
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:19 pm
Why do you NEED cholent?
Aren't you putting up your own meal at home?
I think it's a good thing they only do it if they have a sponsor, this practice is so wasteful. There's no inyan to stuff yourself on Shabbos.
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Rubber Ducky
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:22 pm
I guess that won't be your shul — or you will become the cholent sponsor.
Many, many shuls have a Kiddush only if there is a sponsor and/or only on Rosh Chodesh. Often it's an economic decision.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:24 pm
| allthingsblue wrote: | | (They do this in my shul too. It doesn't seem tacky to me, seems like a way to spend the memebership $ where it's actually needed, not to go to waste.) |
Several people said things to us about how they don't like the policy. Jews love cholent and are lining up for it at every shul I've ever been to. So I assume it wouldn't be a waste to spend the $ on a cholent -- or just increase the dues a little bit. How much could it cost each family a year to pay for a parve cholent? Can't imagine much, I'd imagine. Or maybe create a cholent fund if they don't want to increase dues.
| groisamomma wrote: | | Wow, kiddush every week? Courtesy of the shul? We only have a kiddush if there's a simcha. |
Not courtesy of the shul. It's courtesy of the people who make the shul. Just like the government's money, the shul's money comes from the people. Does your shul have dues?
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amother
OP
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:27 pm
| amother [ Indigo ] wrote: | Why do you NEED cholent?
Aren't you putting up your own meal at home?
I think it's a good thing they only do it if they have a sponsor, this practice is so wasteful. There's no inyan to stuff yourself on Shabbos. |
A lot of people at our shul make the kiddush basically their lunch. A nice kiddush allows people to stay and socialize; food brings people together.
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amother
Babyblue
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:30 pm
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OP, I'm curious in which community and circles you live at that in every single shul you went to people line up for chalont every shabbos.... this doesn't sound so nice to me. Sounds a bit piggish maybe? To expect chalont every shabbos at every shul you go to and to base a move to a new community according to this is a bit weird.
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allthingsblue
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:36 pm
I have been in many communities, from yeshivish to out of town Kiruv to modern orthodox, in the US and Israel, and I have never been in a community where every week the kiddush is in place of lunch. In every place I've been to, the families have their own lunch after shul.
As a big believer in health and not wasting, I don't think another cholent in shul each week is necessary. Also, I and most people I know do not like shul cholent. I only like homemade (not everyone's) cholent. You yourself said you didn't like the cholent all that much.
Why can't you socialize over grape juice and kichel ? Why is cholent a necessary component to socializing?
Why can't you socialize at home- invite families for the shabbos seudah?
Personally I hate socializing over a bowl of hot or messy food. Too much potential for an awkward or messy situation!
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tichellady
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:39 pm
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If this is your biggest concern about the community then it sounds pretty good to me!
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singleagain
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:40 pm
My dad runs the kiddiush for the early minyan. He does so much and gets so little recognition. It's expensive. And ppl don't appreciate it. He does his best to shop deals. But the truth is the Kiddush fund almost always owes him money.
Also in most catering places a 9*13 pan of cholent is about 50$ ... Do you have an extra 50$ a week.. times like away 30-40 ppl that feeds.... Or you can make the cholent yourself. Much cheaper. But then it's your time.
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amother
Firebrick
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 12:41 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | A lot of people at our shul make the kiddush basically their lunch. A nice kiddush allows people to stay and socialize; food brings people together. |
So this gives you more of an opportunity to host people and get to know them on a more personal basis, if you choose to move there.
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zaq
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 1:52 pm
I can’t fathom why you think this is tacky. The shul doesn’t OWE anyone kiddush—many Shuls have kiddush only when sponsored, never mind with cholent—and as a fairly affluent congregation, the worshippers don’t exactly need to be fed. They’re all going home to hearty meals.
For my part, I would rather see my membership dues go to programming; building maintenance; security; safety; helping the indigent in the community; and making the physical plant user-friendly and accessible to often-marginalized demographics such as people with infants, the physically challenged, and the elderly; than feeding a group of people who need it like a hole in the head.
Last edited by zaq on Sun, Dec 08 2019, 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shabbatiscoming
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 1:57 pm
Nah, chulent is not needed at every kiddush. We have this in our shul. If the people sponsoring want chulent, there is, if not, then there are the other basics.
But to sort of judge a shul based on if there is chulent or not, I think is a bit trivial really.
Also, you said that your shul the kiddush is basically many people's lunch. Do you live outside of the usa? I know that in some communities out of america, where there are both orthodox and non orthodox people in the shul, many kehilot do this on purpose, so that the people who might not go home and have kiddush and a shabbat meal, will do so by having a kiddush. But that does not mean that most shuls out there do that.
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amother
Jetblack
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 2:27 pm
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Our shul has a meat chulent every week because someone donates it. OP that someone could be you.
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watergirl
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 2:28 pm
I’ve lived all over the States. The shuls in teeny tiny communities had a weekly kiddush. Shuls in larger communities had a kiddush only if there was a sponsor. In both types of communities, there was only a cholent on a sponsored week and only if specifically requested. I understand that food brings people together, significantly adds to the weekly budget which is not always there. Many shuls rely heavily on donations just to pay the electric bill. It shows fiscal responsibility, not infantilizing of the members, for a shul to know their limits or to set priorities. I know people love their cholent. But to have a weekly and shul and then to come home and have a weekly at home is an unreasonable request an expectation. I wonder, what is the difference between that the community where you currently are compared to the communities that you have been visiting? Are you now in a smaller community?
Last edited by watergirl on Mon, Dec 09 2019, 7:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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anonymrs
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Sun, Dec 08 2019, 2:35 pm
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Sincerely curious, do people decide on a community to move to based on what is served at a shul kiddush?
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