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Could Samoa happen in contiguous America?
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:19 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Because Vaccines are the only substance that thousands of parents say their children had a bad reaction and than regressed into autism.

But the other stuff could also be a cause.


Is there any study or even theory that explains the mechanism by which vaccines would result in autism?
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:54 am
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
Is there any study or even theory that explains the mechanism by which vaccines would result in autism?


Lots of studies - look on pubmed. Google vaccine-autism studies.

Several theories. One is the neurotoxins in vaccines like aluminum.
other is the live viruses in vaccines. Many toxic ingredients - including
DNA from aborted babies and animals.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:10 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Because Vaccines are the only substance that thousands of parents say their children had a bad reaction and than regressed into autism.

But the other stuff could also be a cause.

A study shows that if a doctor tells someone they were attacked by an animal as a child, but repressed the memory, about 1/3 of people will later "remember" the (completely false) attack.

Is it really so surprising that when a doctor lied and told the world that vaccines cause autism, some parents suddenly remembered that, hey, they're pretty sure it was the vaccine for them, too?

Vaccines are one of the factors that's been extensively studied, with no connection found.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:12 am
#BestBubby wrote:
1/3 of kids with autism spectrum disorder are NON-VERBAL.

That's 1 kid in 150 - and that is not fake!

25% of kids with autism speak "few or no" words.

That's down from 50% about a generation ago.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:24 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
I wasn't exclusively referring to vaccines. I think US has a whole lotta toxic stuff going on, but was curious if in Samoa being a 3rd world country with ppl who seem to have become vaccine skeptics, I was wondering if the rates were different.

It's cute that your first thought is that the anti-vax trend must be based on concrete facts like a higher autism rate. But no, it turns out just hysteria is enough.

To be fair, there was a triggering incident in Samoa: a couple of nurses killed two children through negligence when giving vaccines (they gave a muscle relaxant in addition to the vaccine). Anti-vax propagandists jumped on that to try to convince parents not to vaccinate.

But most of the anti-vax trend is based on pure lies. Listen to this woman talk about why she didn't vaccinate her children (who died of measles). Spoiler: it involved people online claiming that vaccines had killed children, when they actually hadn't.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:37 am
ora_43 wrote:
25% of kids with autism speak "few or no" words.

That's down from 50% about a generation ago.


Because the definition of autism has expanded.

When autism was first defined it was only children who spoke few to no words.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:40 am
ora_43 wrote:
A study shows that if a doctor tells someone they were attacked by an animal as a child, but repressed the memory, about 1/3 of people will later "remember" the (completely false) attack.

Is it really so surprising that when a doctor lied and told the world that vaccines cause autism, some parents suddenly remembered that, hey, they're pretty sure it was the vaccine for them, too?

Vaccines are one of the factors that's been extensively studied, with no connection found.


Thousands of parents have had children who developed high fevers and seizures within hours of vaccination. The child then regressed into autism. There are before and after videos of the children showing that the children were normal before the vaccines. I don't think all those thousands of parents imagined it.

Vaccine Court has paid $4.2 Billion for Vaccine injuries and deaths. Vaccine Court pays for brain damage from vaccines - but you can't call it autism when you sue. But these children have autism diagnoses.

All the studies that show that vaccines don't cause autism have been shown to be fraudulent.

The most valid study a vax vs unvax study, the government refuses to do.

This push to take away all exemptions is to eliminate all unvaxxed kids so that
nobody can do a vax vs unvax study. Then no one can prove the harm caused
by vaccines.


Last edited by #BestBubby on Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:42 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Because the definition of autism has expanded.

When autism was first defined it was only children who spoke few to no words.

So now you agree that the changed definition is why there's more autism Rolling Eyes

Give it a rest. There were over 140,000 deaths from measles last year, most of them young children. Is that not enough for you? Stop spreading rumors that you yourself know full well are lies.

Just S T O P.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:44 am
ora_43 wrote:
So now you agree that the changed definition is why there's more autism Rolling Eyes

Give it a rest. There were over 140,000 deaths from measles last year, most of them young children. Is that not enough for you? Stop spreading rumors that you yourself know full well are lies.

Just S T O P.


In 1970 1:10,00 children had NON-VERBAL Autism

Today 1:150 children have NON-VERBAL Autism.

NON-VERBAL Autism has skyrocketed - even though the government lies that the increase in autism is because of the expanded definition. Not true. Look at the massive increase in NON-VERBAL Autism!

And I am comparing apples to apples.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:49 am
ora_43 wrote:
The problem isn't obesity, it's the low vaccine rate together with an overwhelmed medical system (not many hospitals are prepared for that many kids to fall seriously ill all at once anywhere, let alone in a poorer country).

If the vaccine rate in America were to drop as low as they did in Samoa or the Philippines, then yeah, America could have a similar outbreak. Whether in the inner city or anywhere else lots of non-vaccinated people live in the same area. Better medical care would probably mean more lives saved, but even the best medical care can't save everyone.

This is exactly it. Better medical care doesn't count for much when there's an outbreak so large hospitals run out of space and equipment.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:49 am
#BestBubby wrote:
In 1970 1:10,00 children had NON-VERBAL Autism

Today 1:150 children have NON-VERBAL Autism.

NON-VERBAL Autism has skyrocketed - even though the government lies that the increase in autism is because of the expanded definition. Not true. Look at the massive increase in NON-VERBAL Autism!

And I am comparing apples to apples.

Again.

These are not just lies, they are incredibly easily disproven lies.

But what's sickening about this is that you're making it part of the Samoa story. Which, again, has killed 60 children. Take your ignorance of autism to its own thread, where maybe someone can explain to you all of the things you could easily discover by reading WebMD or any one of a dozen other sites.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:56 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
US autism rate is 1:36. I think we have a toxic soup of alot of issues in the US. What is the autism rate in Samoa?

Well first of all low breastfeeding rates increase the likelihood of autism.
Second of all low vitamin D increases the likelihood of autism.
Third, autism is a first-world diagnosis, which many in less developed countries simply do not have the privilege of seeing as a problem and offering therapies for.
Fourth, autism is the new ADHD, and we are constantly expanding the definition to include more and more children who had previously been considered borderline or not autistic bud yes have difficulties.
Fifth, if so many people are delayed, perhaps we need to change the definition of what normal vs delayed means.

sky wrote:
We also have more

WiFi
Cell phones
GPS
GMO
Chemicals
Birth control usage
BPA
pesticides
radiation
less infants dying
people having children at an older age
pollution
Drugs and OTC medicines
Smelly baby mattresses
And a host of other new things in our lives

Not sure Why vaccines?

Because everything you've listed requires lifestyle changes and sacrifices no one is willing to make. Whereas vaccines just require belief that they are harmful and continuing as is. Not vaccinating does not require any sacrifice or lifestyle change, it saves you money and does not cost you a cent (unless there is an outbreak).

Electricity may also be a culprit, in more ways than one.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:53 am
ora_43 wrote:
Again.

These are not just lies, they are incredibly easily disproven lies.

But what's sickening about this is that you're making it part of the Samoa story. Which, again, has killed 60 children. Take your ignorance of autism to its own thread, where maybe someone can explain to you all of the things you could easily discover by reading WebMD or any one of a dozen other sites.


The death rate as of last night was 70 people, 61 of whom were under age 4.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:57 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
Because everything you've listed requires lifestyle changes and sacrifices no one is willing to make. Whereas vaccines just require belief that they are harmful and continuing as is. Not vaccinating does not require any sacrifice or lifestyle change, it saves you money and does not cost you a cent (unless there is an outbreak).

Electricity may also be a culprit, in more ways than one.


The only info that I can come up with for autism in Samoa is that they are attempting to train teachers and identify children who have the disorder. Much of Samoa is rural and some still use traditional tribal healers so it's hard to get them to trust modern medicine or education.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 10:05 am
Just wanted to add that autism rates very greatly by country, region, race, and gender even where everyone is vaccinated.
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amother




Peach
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 10:12 am
ora_43 wrote:
Again.

These are not just lies, they are incredibly easily disproven lies.

But what's sickening about this is that you're making it part of the Samoa story. Which, again, has killed 60 children. Take your ignorance of autism to its own thread, where maybe someone can explain to you all of the things you could easily discover by reading WebMD or any one of a dozen other sites.

Dont waste your breath and energy. Best bubby knows best. You can show her proof that 70 people died in samoa and she will still claim that it didnt happen and that vaccines cause autism . She has been posting her lies and narishkeit on all the vaccine related posts. She constantly posts how 0 people have died from measles .. you can literally show her someone's death certificate and she will still say it never happened.
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amother




Peach
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 10:17 am
southernbubby wrote:
The death rate as of last night was 70 people, 61 of whom were under age 4.

It's heartbreaking. Some families lost a few of their children to measles!!! Not one but a few . It's absolutely mind boggling to me that people in our day and age refuse to vaccinate their kids!
Looks what's going on now in samoa !! Families are getting wiped out ! It is absolutely heartbreaking.
People shouldn't be getting the measles now but thanks to the anti vaxxers we are seeing more cases around the world . It gets me so upset. They keep spreading their lies and made up scientific facts and before we know it there will be (cv) a measles outbreak in our own backyards!
People that dont vaccinate (not referring to the ones that really have severe reactions or to immunocompromised that cant vaccinate) are selfish and should be held accountable for every death that is caused by their selfish acts .
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amother




Lime
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 10:21 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
Because everything you've listed requires lifestyle changes and sacrifices no one is willing to make. Whereas vaccines just require belief that they are harmful and continuing as is. Not vaccinating does not require any sacrifice or lifestyle change, it saves you money and does not cost you a cent (unless there is an outbreak).

Electricity may also be a culprit, in more ways than one.
I know people who are serious about health and they look at every single one of the factors in that list, and try to address each one to the best of their ability. These are people who eat only clean, organic food, don't use wifi, live far away from cell towers, use only glass dishes, no plastics whatsoever, avoid drugs, use heavy duty air purifiers, organic mattresses only. They are well read on dirty electricity and make lifestyle changes to mitigate its effects. LIve away from highways and heavily polluted areas. Choose low VOC paints and materials for building their houses. Etc etc etc. Aside for avoiding vaccines, obviously.

I know plenty of people who don't vax, it is not an easy lifestyle for them at all, yes there are costs involved if not literally financial, and most of them make plenty of other lifestyle changes to protect their families' health.

and your line about changing the parameters of developmental delays because so many kids are delayed? I guess you're ok with sick being the new normal. Just because something is common, doesn't mean it's normal. And I'm certainly not okay with that.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 11:07 am
amother [ Lime ] wrote:
I know people who are serious about health and they look at every single one of the factors in that list, and try to address each one to the best of their ability. These are people who eat only clean, organic food, don't use wifi, live far away from cell towers, use only glass dishes, no plastics whatsoever, avoid drugs, use heavy duty air purifiers, organic mattresses only. They are well read on dirty electricity and make lifestyle changes to mitigate its effects. LIve away from highways and heavily polluted areas. Choose low VOC paints and materials for building their houses. Etc etc etc. Aside for avoiding vaccines, obviously.

I know plenty of people who don't vax, it is not an easy lifestyle for them at all, yes there are costs involved if not literally financial, and most of them make plenty of other lifestyle changes to protect their families' health.

and your line about changing the parameters of developmental delays because so many kids are delayed? I guess you're ok with sick being the new normal. Just because something is common, doesn't mean it's normal. And I'm certainly not okay with that.

That's great.
But let's say that in a heavily urban area anti-vaxxers are not changing their location to avoid pollution, electricity, wifi, etc.
Lots of people do lots of things and it would be cool to do a study on all these lifestyle changes, if we could manage such a study and properly control for the factors.
I know plenty of anti-vaxxers who do all the things you've mentioned and more and they still have one or more children with autism. Know why? Because autism is highly genetic. Not vaxxing is not going to change that.

You're right, I'm not really in favor of changing the definition of normal to include a new sick. Same as I'm not in favor of changing the definition of marriage to include anything other than one man and one woman (or in certain cultures one man and more than one woman). But there are still tons of factors that we haven't even touched, all of which play important roles in children's psychosocial and emotional development and all of which have suffered in the past couple decades. So if we are going to insist on modern life we are going to have to take into account how it harms our children.
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amother




Lime
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 11:14 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
That's great.
But let's say that in a heavily urban area anti-vaxxers are not changing their location to avoid pollution, electricity, wifi, etc.
Lots of people do lots of things and it would be cool to do a study on all these lifestyle changes, if we could manage such a study and properly control for the factors.
I know plenty of anti-vaxxers who do all the things you've mentioned and more and they still have one or more children with autism. Know why? Because autism is highly genetic. Not vaxxing is not going to change that.

You're right, I'm not really in favor of changing the definition of normal to include a new sick. Same as I'm not in favor of changing the definition of marriage to include anything other than one man and one woman (or in certain cultures one man and more than one woman). But there are still tons of factors that we haven't even touched, all of which play important roles in children's psychosocial and emotional development and all of which have suffered in the past couple decades. So if we are going to insist on modern life we are going to have to take into account how it harms our children.
Autism is epigenetic, not genetic, at least in most cases. Syndromic autism makes up a tiny percentage of autism diagnoses. There hasn't to date been identified an "autism gene". Yes, it's very heritable, seems to run in families, but that still doesn't mean hard genetics, but rather points to genetic vulnerabilities and predispositions. Genetics alone can't account for an epidemic. If you know families that address all of these issues and still have an autistic child, they just haven't found the right environmental piece, or pieces, that is driving the autism, combined with the genetic vulnerabilities of course.

Modern life doesn't have to harmful to our children. We can be educated consumers, take the good that modern life has to offer and fight with all we've got to reject the harmful aspects. There are also ways to enjoy modern comforts yet mitigate their harmful effects...
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