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Could Samoa happen in contiguous America?
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amother




Coffee
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 11:19 am
I used to be pro vax. I still vax but after my fully vaccinated kids got whooping cough I am a little skeptical of its effectiveness. We also had pneumococcal pneumonia. Doctors refused to admit it was whooping cough for weeks.

Doctors hate to admit the reality that vaccination is a risk. I do it knowing that, and I space the vaccines. Use your common sense. If your kid ran a 106 fever after MMR, don't give another until they're 3.
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ectomorph




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 11:22 am
I totally understand Samoans. They don't trust their nurses not to kill their kids after a few nurses killed a few kids by mixing a sedative with vaccines.

This has nothing to do with pro vax or anti. It's a local issue that spiraled when nothing was done to ensure those nurses were punished or systems were changed. People in Samoa don't trust the medical system -with good reason.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:04 pm
ectomorph wrote:
I totally understand Samoans. They don't trust their nurses not to kill their kids after a few nurses killed a few kids by mixing a sedative with vaccines.

This has nothing to do with pro vax or anti. It's a local issue that spiraled when nothing was done to ensure those nurses were punished or systems were changed. People in Samoa don't trust the medical system -with good reason.


The nurses went to jail. The head of the anti-vax movement in Samoa is also in jail.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:24 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
Dont waste your breath and energy. Best bubby knows best. You can show her proof that 70 people died in samoa and she will still claim that it didnt happen and that vaccines cause autism . She has been posting her lies and narishkeit on all the vaccine related posts. She constantly posts how 0 people have died from measles .. you can literally show her someone's death certificate and she will still say it never happened.


I said that ZERO died of measles in UNITED STATES. I said in THIRD WORLD
countries measles can be fatal.

Only one lying here is you. I guess your argument is not strong enough.
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ectomorph




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:25 pm
southernbubby wrote:
The nurses went to jail. The head of the anti-vax movement in Samoa is also in jail.

I think that only happened after a huge outcry though. But frankly, if that happened at my pediatrician, you can bet I'd be terrified to vax there. And it's not like Samoans have professional healthcare - only the very rich do. Everyone else is relying on local authorities.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:26 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
Is there any study or even theory that explains the mechanism by which vaccines would result in autism?


Yes, there are studies that show vaccines contain neurotoxins that have
caused autism in monkeys.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:47 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I said that ZERO died of measles in UNITED STATES. I said in THIRD WORLD
countries measles can be fatal.

Only one lying here is you. I guess your argument is not strong enough.


So what it looks like in Samoa is that the traditional diet has been supplanted with non-nutritious cheap junk, just as what happened in many US communities known as food desserts. Obviously many people would be healthier if they ate properly and breast fed longer but it is easier to protect them from dying by giving them vaccines than by changing their lifestyles.
Would you agree that in places where the nutrition is poor, people are better off vaccinated?
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bnm




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:17 pm
southernbubby wrote:
So what it looks like in Samoa is that the traditional diet has been supplanted with non-nutritious cheap junk, just as what happened in many US communities known as food desserts. Obviously many people would be healthier if they ate properly and breast fed longer but it is easier to protect them from dying by giving them vaccines than by changing their lifestyles.
Would you agree that in places where the nutrition is poor, people are better off vaccinated?


so only the rich elite can be non vaxers?
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:20 pm
bnm wrote:
so only the rich elite can be non vaxers?


Yes
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 2:04 pm
amother [ Lime ] wrote:
and your line about changing the parameters of developmental delays because so many kids are delayed? I guess you're ok with sick being the new normal. Just because something is common, doesn't mean it's normal. And I'm certainly not okay with that.

Oh, the irony....
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 2:08 pm
southernbubby wrote:
So what it looks like in Samoa is that the traditional diet has been supplanted with non-nutritious cheap junk, just as what happened in many US communities known as food desserts. Obviously many people would be healthier if they ate properly and breast fed longer but it is easier to protect them from dying by giving them vaccines than by changing their lifestyles.
Would you agree that in places where the nutrition is poor, people are better off vaccinated?

It has nothing to do with breastfeeding, or healthy food vs junk food.

OK, maybe it has like 1% to do with those things.

But mostly - this is what measles looks like. A lot of people get very, very sick. When the health system isn't great, or is simply overwhelmed by the sheer number of sick people, then some people die.

A malnourished person is more likely to get sick, but a completely healthy person is also still plenty likely to get sick. Measles is incredibly contagious.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 2:18 pm
ora_43 wrote:
It has nothing to do with breastfeeding, or healthy food vs junk food.

OK, maybe it has like 1% to do with those things.

But mostly - this is what measles looks like. A lot of people get very, very sick. When the health system isn't great, or is simply overwhelmed by the sheer number of sick people, then some people die.

A malnourished person is more likely to get sick, but a completely healthy person is also still plenty likely to get sick. Measles is incredibly contagious.


Apparently malnutrition greatly increases the death rate for measles, although anyone can die of it. The complication that is killing in Samoa is a type of pneumonia that is hard to treat and I have no idea if nutrition status has any bearing on that.
The question about rich or poor is that I would expect that an outbreak in a homeless shelter in Newark would have a different outcome than in the mansions of Bergen county.
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 3:51 pm
ora_43 wrote:
It has nothing to do with breastfeeding, or healthy food vs junk food.

OK, maybe it has like 1% to do with those things.

But mostly - this is what measles looks like. A lot of people get very, very sick. When the health system isn't great, or is simply overwhelmed by the sheer number of sick people, then some people die.

A malnourished person is more likely to get sick, but a completely healthy person is also still plenty likely to get sick. Measles is incredibly contagious.

What about the thousands of antivaxers who got their kids measles and didnt use any health care whatsoever? How did they do it?
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 4:12 pm
rich elite can catch **** like everyone
but yes samoa has a big prob
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Tue, Dec 10 2019, 4:43 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I said that ZERO died of measles in UNITED STATES. I said in THIRD WORLD
countries measles can be fatal.

Only one lying here is you. I guess your argument is not strong enough.


Didn't 4 people die in Israel, out of around 4,000 infected? Which is the expected rate
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amother




Cyan
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 12:35 am
sky wrote:
We also have more

WiFi
Cell phones
GPS
GMO
Chemicals
Birth control usage
BPA
pesticides
radiation
less infants dying
people having children at an older age
pollution
Drugs and OTC medicines
Smelly baby mattresses
And a host of other new things in our lives

Not sure Why vaccines?

Considering that fact that Wi-Fi and the others examples you gave were not created to change the immune system. Versus if you ask anyone what a vaccine is, they'll tell you even in simple terms that it was designed to trick the immune system into making it believe That it had a disease.
Can we thus leave the option open, that the one thing that was designed to trick our immune system also tricked it into other things. We must agree that medicine isn't perfect. Lets just consider that it might be vaccines. Why wash it away.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 4:56 am
amother [ Lime ] wrote:
Autism is epigenetic, not genetic, at least in most cases. Syndromic autism makes up a tiny percentage of autism diagnoses. There hasn't to date been identified an "autism gene". Yes, it's very heritable, seems to run in families, but that still doesn't mean hard genetics, but rather points to genetic vulnerabilities and predispositions. Genetics alone can't account for an epidemic. If you know families that address all of these issues and still have an autistic child, they just haven't found the right environmental piece, or pieces, that is driving the autism, combined with the genetic vulnerabilities of course.

Modern life doesn't have to harmful to our children. We can be educated consumers, take the good that modern life has to offer and fight with all we've got to reject the harmful aspects. There are also ways to enjoy modern comforts yet mitigate their harmful effects...

So if vaccines is not the trigger, what is?

But about your last paragraph - no, you're wrong. You cannot simply mess up the sleep-wake cycle with artificial electricity and expect that it will be fine and have no effect (electricity has been linked to cancer, btw). You cannot simply decide to keep radiation in your pocket and hand it to your child and expect that it will be fine. You cannot simply switch human interaction and face-to-face interaction with sticking your face in a screen and expect it to be fine. You cannot simply decide that instead of having your children help you get supper ready you will plop them with a screen and expect that it will be fine. You cannot expect that artificially heating and cooling 24/7 is not going to have an effect on a person's body. That sitting in a car instead of walking won't influence children's development. That being containerized won't influence children's development. That bottle-feeding won't influence children's development (and I remind you that in previous generations not nursing from a mother or wetnurse was rare, and those babies often did not survive - it is only the past 2-3 generations when we deprive children of breastfeeding and they still live). You cannot expect that parents leaving their 6-week-old infants in non-parental care will not have an effect. Yes parents used to work in the fields, they would bring their infants with them. Yes some people had live-in nannies and governesses, those replaced the parents and did not care for 3-4-5-6 children of the same age.

Modern life has its benefits but being "educated consumers" does not mitigate the harmful effects.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 5:00 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
What about the thousands of antivaxers who got their kids measles and didnt use any health care whatsoever? How did they do it?

First of all, it's not thousands. Second, I doubt they would admit it anyways. They'd find a way to cover it up. Otherwise their other kids would be taken away.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 5:06 am
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
Considering that fact that Wi-Fi and the others examples you gave were not created to change the immune system. Versus if you ask anyone what a vaccine is, they'll tell you even in simple terms that it was designed to trick the immune system into making it believe That it had a disease.
Can we thus leave the option open, that the one thing that was designed to trick our immune system also tricked it into other things. We must agree that medicine isn't perfect. Lets just consider that it might be vaccines. Why wash it away.

Vaccines were not created to "change" the immune system, just to teach it to tag the disease without having to get sick.

But really, it doesn't matter if wifi and the other examples sky gave were created to change the immune system or not. Electricity wasn't created to affect health yet it does. It wasn't created to change the amount of melatonin in people's bodies yet it does. It sure was created to allow people to stay up after dark, but no one thought that would have a negative effect on health.

Pesticides weren't created to negatively affect people's health but they do anyways. Plastic wasn't created to have an effect on people's health but it does. IVF wasn't created to allow people to push of childbearing until their late 30s and early 40s but it does anyways. Birth control wasn't created to cause UTIs or cancer and IUDs weren't created to puncture the uterus, but they still do all those things.

It is downright stupid to say "this wasn't created for that purpose therefore it's not important to the discussion."
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 7:51 am
I have this big interest in Dan Beuttner's blue zones, where centagenarians are robust and healthy. Believe it or not, they are not all in second or third world countries. One place is Loma Linda CA, where a religious group of vegetarian exercise enthusiasts have a community. They use modern appliances but am not sure what they do about vaccines.

In some blue zones, health workers are dispatched to homes by the government and probably do give some vaccines.
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