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Perfect life. Yet another spin off
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amother
Wine


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:24 am
Life is absolutely unfair. Some people really are luckier than others.

And the "behind closed doors she's suffering" kind of response to jealousy is just bizarre. What kind of awful person feels comforted knowing that someone else has problems?

We should be thankful for what we have. We should help those with less, and be sensitive in situations where we can't help.

But to pretend that everyone deals with the same amount of difficulty in life is just wrong.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:40 am
Keep in mind that life is a marathon not a sprint.

I'm in my 50's and know many people who had perfect lives in their 20's and 30's but as time went on bad things happened. Conversely I know people who had difficulties when they were younger and now in their 50's and 60's have better lives.

No, things are not equal. Also people do not cope equally well with whatever life throws at them.
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 12:59 am
Pain Is Inevitable; Suffering Is Optional

Life is full of pains and nobody has it easy...some choose to go through life and some choose to grow through life.

We have no way to measure who is "truly suffering" and who has it easy. Some are drowning with insane inner turmoil and can find no inner peace and seem the image of perfection on the outside.. while some dealing with an illness, poverty or more public pain have been blessed with true inner calm.

Everybody has their challenges, some carry them in clear bags, and some in black bags...
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:03 am
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
Life is absolutely unfair. Some people really are luckier than others.

And the "behind closed doors she's suffering" kind of response to jealousy is just bizarre. What kind of awful person feels comforted knowing that someone else has problems?

We should be thankful for what we have. We should help those with less, and be sensitive in situations where we can't help.

But to pretend that everyone deals with the same amount of difficulty in life is just wrong.


I totally agree. I can never forget the Heartrending sobs of my mother during Yetzias Neshama of my father, asking G-d, “ did I sin this much that I have to be punished So severely time and again.“
Her life leading up to this moment was so Very difficult that It was unfathomable to us that this can happen too. My mom has many siblings. All of them experienced hardships and suffering over the years but I most def believe that what she went through takes the cake.
My father would always say whenever a another hardship presented to him (and us), And boy did it come in waves, that he doesnt know why and for what reason, but he doesnt want to know anytime soon. I hope now that he is in the oilum h’emes all of it has been answered.
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amother
Wine


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:11 am
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Pain Is Inevitable; Suffering Is Optional

Life is full of pains and nobody has it easy...some choose to go through life and some choose to grow through life.

We have no way to measure who is "truly suffering" and who has it easy. Some are drowning with insane inner turmoil and can find no inner peace and seem the image of perfection on the outside.. while some dealing with an illness, poverty or more public pain have been blessed with true inner calm.

Everybody has their challenges, some carry them in clear bags, and some in black bags...


Really? I would think that the death of a child counts as truly suffering. I would think that extreme financial distress, mental illness and some physical illnesses count as truly suffering.

You're blaming the victim. "If you just had the right attitude, this wouldn't be so bad."

A good attitude helps, but it's not everything. Everyone has challenges, but some have bigger ones and some have smaller ones. Denying reality only isolates and invalidates the person in pain.
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:23 am
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
Really? I would think that the death of a child counts as truly suffering. I would think that extreme financial distress, mental illness and some physical illnesses count as truly suffering.

You're blaming the victim. "If you just had the right attitude, this wouldn't be so bad."

A good attitude helps, but it's not everything. Everyone has challenges, but some have bigger ones and some have smaller ones. Denying reality only isolates and invalidates the person in pain.


I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive Sad My intention would never be to blame a victim gd forbid!!! All I meant to say is WE DO NOT know who is truly suffering since suffering is a choice.

But now that I am rereading my post I do see that it mightve been misread as a blame...
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amother
Wine


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 1:44 am
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive Sad My intention would never be to blame a victim gd forbid!!! All I meant to say is WE DO NOT know who is truly suffering since suffering is a choice.

But now that I am rereading my post I do see that it mightve been misread as a blame...


I assume you are a nice person and you don't intend to blame anyone. But mindlessly repeating platitudes about how you only suffer if you choose to suffer ends up being the same thing.

Suffering is not a choice. Just as some of us have better circumstances than others, some of us also have dispositions that are cheerier than others. My mother is a survivor. She's also one of the most positive and generous human beings you will ever meet. That doesn't mean she hasn't suffered. Her losses are real even if she doesn't walk around talking about them.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 2:26 am
Here's the thing: Yes, every one has their challenges and struggles. But it's all relative. I learned this lesson way back when I was a college residential advisor. I had one girl who would come crying to me about the most trivial things and I really wanted to brush her off and tell her to just grow up. But if you live a privileged life and the very worst thing that has happened to you is that you broke a nail, then even though it's only a nail, it's still the very worst thing that's happened to you. So as someone who has seen more dark days than anyone ever should, I must realize that her pain is relative to her own life and thus her suffering is equal to mine. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but the point is there's no use in ever playing the my-life-is-worse-than-your-life game, because ALL suffering is relative to that person's life experiences.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 2:43 am
I agree.

'Everyone has their pekel' always sounded like some weird 'sour grapes' kind of response. No, some people really have wonderful lives, and that's OK. It makes more sense to say, "Hashem has a cheshbon for everything we go through and don't go through. I am exactly where I need to be with the tools I need right now" than to say, "Don't feel bad about your situation because your friend is going through some horrible stuff."

It's a matter on working on building yourself up from within vs. putting everyone around us down in our heads so that we feel better.

Someone else's pain should not make it easier to deal with our own.
And some people really do have amazing lives. Trying to trick yourself into thinking there's something horrible behind closed doors seems is not productive.

I have a friend who is insecure about her looks. Whenever she sees a beautiful woman she said, "Oh, she probably had work done" in order to somehow make herself feel better. No, it's entirely possible this person had no work done and is just beautiful. It's more productive to work on building oneself UP than to kick everyone else around us down in our minds.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 3:30 am
I think suffering can't be compared.
There are some people who have it extra easy and some people have it extra hard. Some people have it easy when they're young and hard when they're old.

A girl that gets married at 19, has full financial support and gets pregnant right away obviously has less worries than a woman who gets married at 32, has lots and lots of terrible dates, has to lower her expectations and then doesn't even get pregnant right away...that's tough.

Who knows though if the one who married at 19 won't be a widow at age 45 and then depend on her family financially because she never had to get a job before? And then the woman who married at 32 lives comfortably with her husband and they grow old together.

When we're jealous we only see what's now.

There was a woman I was very jealous of. She got married to the first guy she dated. The were the perfect couple, she got pregnant during wedding night and it seemed so perfect.
She had a bunch of kids and then one kid got terminally ill.
I am the same age as her and I didn't have any kids at that point. When I heard her kid got sick I realized how stupid it was to be jealous. I'd rather have no kids than a terminally ill one.
When I got over my jealousy , I got pregnant.
I davened a lot for that woman and her child. But I never got over that guilt that I had envied her for her kids.
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amother
Purple


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 6:34 am
leah233 wrote:
People without major problems aren't posting on FrumGirlProblems group on Facebook.

You are only seeing the gorgeous people with problems there. Not the ones without


Are you on that group? The group in general is more of a humorous chizuk group. Like: I can't find any tznius clothes without xmas pictures. That type of problem.

The last couple of weeks everyone was asked to post a picture with a bit about themselves. Many of the women who posted had no big problems. I actually posted myself and really, while I don't have a perfect life, I don't have major problems in life. In any case I didn't really share any of my more private issues. (shalom bayis issues, etc)
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:19 am
When I was younger, I used to think I had it the hardest. A parent died and my surviving parent was sick and abusive. We had no money and no peace.

Then, I grew up. All those seemingly perfect people have struggles too. The difference is public appearances. Some struggles are hidden and some, I.e. death of a parent, are obvious to the world. All of us and this are designed. And my life was and is perfect. It just took growth to see it.

It reminds me a while ago when I was speaking to an older person that I truly respect. She told me of course I have a small family, I was going for a big and hard degree. Lol, I don't have more because we weren't yet blessed and my IVF cycles have all failed. She saw me holding off and I saw another lost cycle. Mind you, this person lost so much when she converted, she left behind adult children who aren't interested. Who can compare? Is there anyone who has a right?

It's all good. We are all even in Gods eyes and that's what counts. And yes, my life is perfect for me. I think we get so bogged down in living that we forget what we're here for and that's when we compare pain.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:28 am
Why do we need to compare pain? Why does someone else's pain need to be as big as ours in order to earn our sympathy? Does it matter if it's everyone that's suffering or just most people?

With all the things that can go wrong in a person's life, I find it hard to believe that anyone can make it through their young adulthood without at least one serious problem. Do we need to make sure the problem is serious enough before taking their pain seriously?

I'm the one with the perfect life. I have an absolutely incredible husband, amazing kids, no big money but doing pretty okay compared to my peers. I also have debilitating chronic health issues that are completely invisible including mental and physical issues. I still consider my life to be quite incredible.

Even the good parts of my life are not immune to pain. Good husbands can also cause pain. Good children can go through really rough stages. Decent income still equals financial struggles when you're in a situation with big medical bills and no help.

Can we just all assume that Hashem knows what problems to give each of us and someone else's pain or lack thereof is no one's business?
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:28 am
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
I assume you are a nice person and you don't intend to blame anyone. But mindlessly repeating platitudes about how you only suffer if you choose to suffer ends up being the same thing.

Suffering is not a choice. Just as some of us have better circumstances than others, some of us also have dispositions that are cheerier than others. My mother is a survivor. She's also one of the most positive and generous human beings you will ever meet. That doesn't mean she hasn't suffered. Her losses are real even if she doesn't walk around talking about them.

Agree 100%. People can deal with stuff in different ways but it is not necessary to make someone with a terrible situation feel bad for being annoyed when someone else is complaining about the proverbial broken nail just because that person has been mostly shielded from big problems.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:37 am
When I was younger, I met a guy who put things in perspective for me. (This was before I was frum, and I had guy-friends.)

He had a perfect childhood. Like something out of a 50's sitcom, "Leave it to Beaver". Mom baking apple pie, dad always ready with advice, protective older brother, baseball, good grades, really anything a boy could ever want. Firmly upper middle class and secure.

He grew up, and became an engineer for Boeing. He makes a TON of money, and loves his job. Owns his own house, and rescues greyhound dogs from shelters.

So what does he have to complain of? He married a petite redhead with HUGE anger problems. She'll pick a fight with him, get him yelling, and then hit him and scratch him up with her long fingernails. Then she will burst into tears and call the police to have him arrested. Meanwhile, the poor guy has not lifted a single finger against her, but because she's so tiny, she can make him look like a monster. I remember him coming to my house one day, with big cuts down both cheeks. He just sat on my sofa and burst into tears. When they finally divorced, she got the house, and he had to move into an apartment.

On the plus side, B'H they didn't have any children together.
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singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:42 am
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amother
Natural


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 7:50 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
Why do we need to compare pain? Why does someone else's pain need to be as big as ours in order to earn our sympathy? Does it matter if it's everyone that's suffering or just most people?

With all the things that can go wrong in a person's life, I find it hard to believe that anyone can make it through their young adulthood without at least one serious problem. Do we need to make sure the problem is serious enough before taking their pain seriously?

I'm the one with the perfect life. I have an absolutely incredible husband, amazing kids, no big money but doing pretty okay compared to my peers. I also have debilitating chronic health issues that are completely invisible including mental and physical issues. I still consider my life to be quite incredible.

Even the good parts of my life are not immune to pain. Good husbands can also cause pain. Good children can go through really rough stages. Decent income still equals financial struggles when you're in a situation with big medical bills and no help.

Can we just all assume that Hashem knows what problems to give each of us and someone else's pain or lack thereof is no one's business?


This. Your so right. Even the good parts of our life have pain intertwined. We all came down in this world to work and grow. No pain, no gain.

So even though some people really have terrible hardships, we all have our work and struggles cut out for us. Their is no competition here. "Adam leumel yeled"' pertains to us all.
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Frenchfry




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 8:09 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I think suffering can't be compared.
There are some people who have it extra easy and some people have it extra hard. Some people have it easy when they're young and hard when they're old.

A girl that gets married at 19, has full financial support and gets pregnant right away obviously has less worries than a woman who gets married at 32, has lots and lots of terrible dates, has to lower her expectations and then doesn't even get pregnant right away...that's tough.

Who knows though if the one who married at 19 won't be a widow at age 45 and then depend on her family financially because she never had to get a job before? And then the woman who married at 32 lives comfortably with her husband and they grow old together.

When we're jealous we only see what's now.

There was a woman I was very jealous of. She got married to the first guy she dated. The were the perfect couple, she got pregnant during wedding night and it seemed so perfect.
She had a bunch of kids and then one kid got terminally ill.
I am the same age as her and I didn't have any kids at that point. When I heard her kid got sick I realized how stupid it was to be jealous. I'd rather have no kids than a terminally ill one.
When I got over my jealousy , I got pregnant.
I davened a lot for that woman and her child. But I never got over that guilt that I had envied her for her kids.


Yes, if it worked that way. But I just don't see life as a balance. Plenty of people get married, have perfect kids, nachas from grandkids and wonderful Parnassa.

You know those kids who don't have the ability in school to work at grade level? So the teachers modify the program to meet their needs?

I feel like after 120, those who seem to live on easy street will see that they took the modified program, and those who struggled will get honors for being in the enrichment track.

Just a thought
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 9:29 am
Ravenclaw wrote:
I don't think we all have equal problems, but I believe that we all experience them equally.


I disagree. What one person experiences as an adventure, challenge, or no big deal, another experiences as an annoyance or frustration and a third as a calamity.

An example, if trivial, from RL: Three friends at a Shabbaton. One could be a skincare model with a perfect complexion, one with skin that’s nothing to write home about but won’t scare horses or little children, and one with acne so severe it almost needs intravenous antibiotics.

All three develop a major zit on their faces Friday afternoon.

Dana of the pizza face shrugs. What’s one more zit among all the others? She looks the same as always.

Lana of the so-so complexion is annoyed. She slaps on some medicated coverup, grumbling a bit, and goes on her way.

Rana of the normally perfect complexion has a meltdown. Her face is ruined! Her Shabbaton is ruined! She looks frightful! No one will look at her, talk to her, or have anything to do with her!

This story is true, only the names have been changed.
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Dec 10 2019, 9:35 am
singleagain wrote:

But this is a deceptive quote. They both had the same end, they both drowned. This isn't really analogous to, say, a person jobless and drowning in debt vs a person who didn't get an expected bonus and therefore has to tighten their belt. Both have financial pressure but objectively the first person is dealing with a harder situation. Even if the second is stressed out and has never had to deal with this before.
I have sympathy for both but more for the first person. And it would totally be out of place for the second person to complain to the first or be annoyed he is not getting the same degree of sympathy.
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